Apparently not in this case. It reads to me like it worked pretty much the way it was supposed to.:shrug:

Where are you reading that? I don't see any proof that he discussed OBL's courier under torture.

A friend works over at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
He does well....
He wants out.

I think NASA is still a desirable destination for youngins. It depends on the field.
My friend who works there wants out but his goal was always a university position.

I guarantee you he could make a lot more in private industry.

Although, if he wants out of a government position to go into a University position, he isn't in the group I am referring too. They don't have issues with "working." LOL

Just a joke, I don't him.

He could probably make a killing working in the Oil or Insurance industry but hes already done the wage slave thing.

Oil exploration vs Martian Geochemistry...
Not too many private companies with rovers on mars doing actual research.

I'm talking about the whole system, not just specific incidences of waterboarding. These people underwent rendition, were transferred to Guantanamo Bay as enemy combatants, and underwent interrogation of both the enhanced and standard variety. As a result interrogators received intelligence that eventually led to Bin Laden's death. All of this was criticized by the current administration.

Would interrogators have gotten that intelligence had these people been treated as common criminals? How about if they had been treated as POWs? Would these detainees have given up the information they did if they hadn't been declared enemy combatants and subjected to rendition, "torture", and years of interrogation, none of which would have been allowed if they were treated as criminals or POWs? Did all that convince them our country was serious or did it have no effect?

We will never know the answers to those questions, though I of course have my own opinions on the matter. What we do know is the highly criticized system that was put in place generated part of the intelligence necessary to kill Bin Laden.

Fair enough.......but you say "torture" in quotes.........I am just curious what would qualify as torture in your opinion? If waterboarding, bodyslams, and being chained in stress positions buck-naked in near-freezing temperatures, don't qualify as torture, what does?

By all the comments I read on message boards, I get the impression that most Americans seem to think that it isn't torture unless it leaves a visible mark. I disagree, and several people in power do as well.

I put torture in quotes because I'm really not sure if it was or wasn't in reference to waterboarding. I wouldn't define stress positions, nakedness, or cold conditions as torture. I don't believe "bodyslams" (conjuring up images of pro wrestling) were ever approved, though slapping and shaking were. I can't recall exactly but pushing someone in to a wall may have been used. Unless what was done in those cases was vastly more violent than what I imagine I wouldn't define that as torture either.

The quotes aren't meant to convey sarcasm, they are simply to show that I accept someone using the word and I will use it to advance the discussion without agreeing to it. There are also several people who have been in power who don't believe it was torture. Which people in power are right?

I know of 1 person who died as a result of bodyslams & chest blows, and another who died from exposure.

You might not think a stress position is torture, but what if it lasts several hours? And what if it is combined at the same time, with cold, nakedness, and/or loud music?

That is fine and all but really what is the difference? We can get in to a discussion of what each of us choose to call what was done if you like but it doesn't change a thing.