So cold hard switch.

Can use raw beef. Really.

He can pretty much eat anything raw u feed him, correct?

I've heard that raw pork is discouraged, but I don't know that there are any absolutes.

Isn't pork bad for dogs? Thats the old tale I've always heard. Any truth to that?

This is true, dogs can get roundworm from raw pork. Sometimes my brother in law gives me pork that he buys in bulk and lets go bad in the freezer. I cook it then feed it to the dogs, never had a problem with that.

Any other meat should be ok raw though.

So far our dogs have had chicken,duck,rabbit,beef, and goose. No pork. If I can catch Mr. Groundhog this year.they'll have that.

Ok... what about vitamins & minerals? Do you guys supplement with anything?

That's where you use raw veggies,yogurt,eggs, molasses. We buy a lot of leafy greens{kale,romaine,broccoli,spinach,....) carrots,celery,etc..pretty much everything but onions. We have an industrial food processor and make a veggie glop. We have to make some tomorrow. I'll snap some pics. Tell you what-I'll snap pics of tomorrow's dinner.

I really wish it was as easy to get cats on a raw diet as it is for dogs. We tried once and one cat wouldn't touch. The other ate it just fine. Then we cleaned up exorcist-like vomit out of the carpet 10 minutes later. :panic:

Pork is bad for everybody. It's stated in the Old Testament. redflip

BTW-Wife bought meat and veggies-enough for almost 2 months for 3 20 lb dogs and spent $50. She uses coupons and watches the weekly sale paper but you get the idea. Remember-you are buying the stuff most people don't buy. Chicken backs and necks,liver,gizzards,hearts etc...

Vator. Thanks for the info & the future pics.

Yes, their stomachs have to adjust to real food. My dogs all threw up when I switched them too. Very normal.

Put please don't waste good food on cats....cause cats suck.

Here they are. As you can see, Leafy veggies, carrots, ginger root, garlic,berries eggs,yogurt.vinegar and molasses. Damn dogs eat healthier than us humans. :lol

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21...Rawdiet001.jpg

Monster food processor. We burned up our Harry Homeowner model doing this shit. Basically 3 eggs, yogurt, and molasses per run. We did 4 runs.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21...Rawdiet005.jpg

Never said it looked good.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21...Rawdiet007.jpg

DAMN-it looks like a hideous experiment. Now you see why we call it glop.But the dogs love it.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21...Rawdiet008.jpg

Ready for freezing. About 2 months worth. Total cost- $20

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21...Rawdiet009.jpg

Tonight's dinner. Beef ribs,chicken hearts and livers, and glop.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21...Rawdiet011.jpg

The glop looks good, I will have to make some glop for Puggy. Do you leave one glop container in the fridge and just dole it out?

WOW Vator... that looks awesome.

Uma & I doing more research tonight....

Don't listen to the vets.
Don't feed them pork.
Don't cook anything but maybe vegs.
Cold turkey switching is best
no vegs for first few weeks, just meat.
slightly browned hamburger is good to help switch
I can buy used fridge/freezers locally on craiglists all day long.

Oh and according to the math of 3% of the dogs body weight (150#) he needs about 4lbs of food a day!!!!!!!!

Really?!?!?

Hey Gas, you may want to lay off the grain and starch like potatoes (its found in a lot of kibble) until the yeast clears up and give your dog some yogurt. I was fostering a yeast filled pug and got her on a no grain kibble and it she was getting so much better (until she got adopted).

Yes. We have a small scale to weigh portions.

He's on a nature's recipe adult lamb & rice.

I do see they offer a grain free version.

What type of yogurt did you use?

Great Value by Walmart :lol: I just get plain yogurt.

For kibbles i use Wellness Core. Puggy and my fosters does well on it and my stray cat is on a grain free diet too. I have to be better with preparing Puggy's diet, but this year has been rough with school. She was getting cooked lean turkey, brown rice and veggies at night and during the day she was getting mashed yams, pumpkin, spinach and flaxseed. The vet said she looks great either way but esp now that she is getting older I really want to get her away from an all kibble diet.

The only thing is that she inhales her food and she doesn't really chew so half her veggies come back out whole. I am going to try some glop!

here is something you can skim: (not sure how accurate it is, but I'm sure there is some truth to it)
http://www.greatdanelady.com/article...ini_course.htm

Thanks for the links. Will read when on a pc

And ok on the yogurt.

How about post feeding clean up? Obviously the spot that Brinks drops a piece of raw chicken on will have to be cleaned, but what about the dogs? Do you wash them up after as well, or just let them take care of it. I'm not too fond of the thought of him tracking chicken bits all over the house. :lol:

Do you think a freezer or a basic fridge/freezer is best?

Remembering I'm going to be going thru a 1/2 a chicken a day...

I'm looking at buying a used fridge/freezer this week.

Also, going to stop by a couple butcher shops and sams club to price out meat.

Sadie eats in one place, it's a tile floor and gets cleaned after she eats. The chicken gets dropped on the floor by her when she eats, it just happens. That doesn't mean she won't try and sneak it away.... :lol:

I use a Swiffer Wet with antibacterial stuff, takes less than a minute to clean up.....or I feed them outside when its nice.

Definitely a freezer. You can transfer a daily meal to your fridge to dethaw it, but to avoid going to the store all the time it pays to have a freezer.

What about cleaning of the dog? Has it on his paws and such... do you clean those?

And really? Just a freezer? We were thinking it would be better to thaw the chicken slower in the fridge.

My dog always behaves like her paws taste like peanut butter after breakfast. Probably because there is peanut butter in her mouth :lol:

I divide her food into single meal portions in cheap Ziploc plastic containers. Those go into the freezer. I have two in the fridge at all times, one thawing and one thawed for dinner. I rotate them. The bulk of them are in the freezer. At one time, we used freezer bags. But, the plastic containers are reuseable.

Yeah but I be going thru a bunch of food...

Yeah, bigger freezer...

I'm worried abt thaw time. Whole chickens aren't gg to thaw fast. And our fridge is always packed. 2 gals of milk, 2 oj gals, beer, soda, lots of left overs. No room for 2 or 3 whole chickens is various states of frozen/thaw.

I fill the sink with hot water and soak it to dethaw...

Thaw it in the microwave while you're at work... Just put it in, don't turn it on, come home and it's thawed...

How much chicken do you guys keep in your freezers?

I'm finding whole chicken for about $0.85 lb at meijer. Still have two more butcher shops to check and sams club.

When I had 2 Danes I kept a lot, and you're right, none of it thaws fast what I would do when I got home was to separate the chicken into the daily amounts for the dogs into zip lock bags. They store smaller and they thaw quicker.

I was getting chicken necks and backs for about $.60 per pound at Kroger.

Well my old town butcher shop said he would sell me leg quarters at $0.20 over cost or about $0.30 under full counter retail. But I have to buy it by the 40# case (not an issue). So I can get leg quarters for $0.69 lb. I think that is on par with kaneman found pricing and I can get that price all the time, no sales or anything.

Then like I said... $0.85 not on sale at meijer for whole chickens.

Sams club was $0.88 a lb for whole chickens... couldn't believe Meijer beat them.

Still have one more butcher shop to hit...

Also need to look at chest freezers instead of fridges I guess. Did you guys buy new or used?

Ok peeps... somebody who is going to go thru the amount of food I will....

What size freezer are you all running?

I think I will just buy a new one... can get
5 cu ft for $139
7 for $169
or less

the 5 will hold approximately 175 lbs. of frozen food. I think that should be fine. Manual defrost but no biggie

http://www.lowes.com/pd_75729-33112-...7C1&facetInfo=

ONSSP and I were talking about taking the plunge into this last night...

The 5 will be just fine man. :lol:

Awesome dude!

Well I don't think they make em much smaller in the chest style freezers...

I have (2) 70+ lb dogs, and I use a 5 cu ft chest. I have had no issues with storage.

For your dogs health,just do it. I know it's hard to get started-but it gets easier as you learn.

Yeah perfect... I also found this kenmore on sale at sears
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...kType=G2#specs

Picked up the Kenmore. Real nice and says it only costs $24 a year to operate it.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3...TgyMi5qcGc.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3...TgyMi5qcGc.jpg

Different butcher shop, Cattlemans, and this place carriers EVERYTHING!! From beef tongue, to mountain oysters, livers, hearts, lungs, and normal chicken, steak, etc. Also carriers whole sides/slabs/etc. Their meat department/display is a walk in cool room. Super cool.

40# cases of leg quarters, delievered fresh daily is $0.65 or less per lb / $26 or less.

This will be my meat place. I can use the others as back ups, but I don't think there will be a reason.

Glad to see you onboard. :boobs: Your dog thanks you. :rockwoot:

I'm on board but not serving... We will make the switch next week. Just been in homework mode, and bought the freezer. Will power up freezer and buy chicken this weekend.

Thinking of making the switch sunday (later today). Question. Have any of you had any issues with the switch? Puking? Difficulty pooping? Do they poop whole pieces of bone or no?

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this:
As long as he's chewing up the bones, no worries.
He gets 30 mins with his chicken pieces, if he don't eat it, back in the fridge, waits till following day.
Sit and wait for the food.
No more kibble.
Just run chicken, no veggies or other meats, for 2-3 weeks.

All my dogs threw up a couple of times during the first month. There was always bone fragments in the puke, but I think that was mainly because I was feeding pieces too small for them to have to chew (neck bones)

The poop should be nothing more than compacted bone dust. It will turn while and basically be a powder when it dries....there should be no whole bone fragments in their poop.

Sometimes it helps to feed them by hand, you can teach them how to eat correctly by not letting them swallow it whole, :lol:

Thanks.

Picked up the chicken today. 40# of chicken leg quarters for $26 ($0.65 per #) Do you guys find that to be a good price?

Used press & seal to break down the case into days. Have probably 2 weeks worth. Depending on how well he eats.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3...Tc0Mi5qcGc.jpg

Tried to feed him earlier but he didn't want anything to do with it.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3...Tg0OC5qcGc.jpg

He woke up from the couch, and was lookin at his bowl for food. I grabbed his bowl of chicken from the fridge. Warmed it slightly with warm tap water. Put it out for him, showed, him... he sniffs it with interest but looks confused. Then ultimately laid back down in disgust of his empty stomach.

Try cutting it up and feeding it to him by hand or what about blending it up and mixing it with some dry food?

Yea, I think you're going to have to hand feed him for a couple days. Don't worry, that's part of the process and it'll be good for you're bond anyway.

Well I tried that as well. He thinks about it. Almost tried a bite then backed away. All "I don't think so". Even just laid down in defeat.

I feel so bad, he's licking his kible container. He's eating grass cause I know his stomach is upset from no food. But he's still not going for it.

Advise?

Wait it out? Hunger will get him to eat? Like I said I feel horrible about it.

How many hours since he's eaten? Try some raw ground beef mixed with one chicken thigh...

Its been a day and a half going on 2 days. Will pull some beef hamburger from freezer. He'll get it when I or wifey gets home from work.

He's a stubborn dog. Always has been and this proves it once again.

I can really hear his stomach now. Not the first time though. He's also known for weird eating habits and sometimes weird eating schedules, probably due to our hectic & erratic work schedules.

Will report back and thanks for the help.

Ok well wifey, fed him some raw beef hamburger. He liked that, but not the chicken. She even put some beef under the chicken skin. he licked it out. She said everytime he picked up a piece of chicken he spit it out.

Now what...

I'd mix some cooked chicken in with the raw and try that....

Man, you're giving it one for the gipper though....I'm definitely surprised how uninterested he is.

Me too. My dogs had a what the he'll is this moment for about 2 minutes and went to work. Yea,you are going to have to train him to eat healthy.

Kind of like trying to wean one of us off of beer. :lol

Ok! Thanks man for the help. This shit is buggin me.

My prediction... he will eat the cooked chicken and leave the raw. Just like he did for the raw beef hamburger.

I'm not surprised. It's his distaste for raw chicken coupled with his stubburness.

Grind it all up together.

Don't have a grinder.

We mildly heated the chicken... stripped the meat off the bones and he ate that crap right up. Basically just enough to heat it. Put a raw drum stick and a small piece of raw in there... he ate around or picked it up and moved it aside.

So I don't understand the issue. I mean we barely heated the stuff and he went to town on it.

GM-Your dog will take to it-as soon as he finds that he likes raw meat. Now, if you recall my first post on this, I had one dog that wants NOTHING to do with duck. I really hope yours isn't chicken because chicken is the base behind raw diet being economical. He'll come around.

Maybe you need to get a live chicken and let him kill it. :rockwoot:

Fresh kills aren't room temperature... They are warm.

Dog has to get the scent of the kill. Later he'll appreciate refrigeration.

Well he hasn't ate the raw chicken. There are still 2 raw pieces in his bowl. He's chewed on it a bit, but still spitting it out.

Use the afore mentioned suggestions. Don't feed him chicken with bones- mix ground up raw chicken breast in with his kibble. Decrease amount of kibble and increase size of chicken pieces. He has to get used to the taste of raw chicken on his terms apparently.

But we don't want to re-introduce kibble. That will mess with his digestion process. We pan seared the chicken, de-boned it and he ate it up.

What I'm wondering is, we aren't even cooking the chicken meat. So what about the bone. It's not cooked so it should be good. Just sear the skin and serve, Correct?

Ok well I did what I said... plus major hands on. First we just gave it to him and he pulled it from the bowl and thought about tearing into it... but it was like he was unsure about using his paws to hold it down.

So we went outside and I went hands on feeding him. He really enjoyed it. Daddy feeding him. I would cut a piece of meat most of the way and have him tear it off with his front teeth. Then he took off with a piece of bone with some meat on it. He went to the grass and tried to eat it, but wasn't sure about it. Sometime little pieces of the bone, like a knuckle would be hanging with meat on it. He would tear that off and eat everything, bone and all.

He's got some ADD cause he'd see somebody walking by, and would go to bark. I would make him come back to me and he got fed more. It was really great. He was really enjoying the raw meat now.

From 2 large chicken quarters, this was all that was left.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3...TkxNS5qcGc.jpg

So he ate most of it and that was probably a bit over 2#. So I'm saying he got 2# of raw chicken diet. It seemed like he got wasn't as hungry after that, so we figure it was good. Leaving him slightly hungry will help with tomorrow.

Thanks guys for all your help. I think we are finally rolling in the right direction.

Correct, as long as the bone isn't cooked you're good to go. And you're also right about re-introducing kibble...not a good idea at this point.

HELL YEA MAN!! Feeding by hand is going to give you an even better bond too.

Yep I had to feed Andre by hand at first. Sometimes still do, with the bigger stuff.

I will also mention garlic salt - that helped get them really interested. I just sprinkle some on top of the chicken itself and they went to town.

Good luck, just make sure he gets enough bone and organ meat for the vitamins, and minerals, etc that his body needs :)

Garlic salt... cool, will give that a try.

Went through tonight the same way as last night. What I have found is that he doesn't like it cold. We put a piece of meat with bone in the pan, just enough to heat it. I'm talking 40secs. He eats it up!

However, if the pieces are too big he will chew & chew & chew. But being it's not getting smaller aka small enough to swallow. he drops it on the floor and gives up. Daddy cuts into smaller pieces and he chews it down. He will eat bone as long as it's covered in meat. Otherwise, not overly interested in the bone.

He ate the 2 leg quarters... and we thought, go for the 3rd. His body weight should take 3 full quarters.

This is all that was left...
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3...jA1MS5qcGc.jpg

However, 45mins later he puked up a bunch of it. I think the 3rd quarter was just too much. So we are going back to 2 quarters for at least a week. Then maybe just add in a leg or thigh. He needs more food, but I think we will have to ween him back up.

Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

What is so bad about cooking the meat then giving it to the dog? Throw that shit in the oven....debone it and feed it to the dog. Problem solved.

Yeah really. Cold raw chicken's gotta suck, I'm sorry. Looks like shit too --- all slimy & shit.

The problem is that the bones actually give them a great deal of vitamins and minerals that is good for them. Further, it keeps their teeth clean and their jaw muscles in good shape. It also "gets out" their desire to chew bones. Your dog is chewing the meat and bones and therefor doesn't need raw hide and such.

Sound about right Kaneman?

Well he's doing well with it. Wifey was with him all day today and this afternoon, with lots of encouragement, she cut the leg quarter into about 5 pieces, heated real quick in the pan (again, talking seconds) put on a plate (seems to be magic if it's on a plate) and many crunches later, it's down the hatchet.

This was repeated a few hours later for the 2nd leg quarter of the day.

No pics as there was nothing remaining.

We are Very Excite!

There is a great debate raging as to whether or not the bone actually contains anything beneficial nutrient wise to the dogs, but it definitely keeps their dental health in check by cleaning their teeth every day.

Another thing is that when they poop out that bone dust they have to push harder, which causes them to evacuate their anal glands...meaning you don't have to pay the vet to do it...and they don't do it in the house either, which would be the worst!!

Fuckin a man, fuckin a.

That's really awesome, man. It's just different food than he is used to. I mean, if someone just opted to change everything and everyway you eat every day you might not like it so much, right? He'll get it. And, he'll be better because of it.

Awesome.

That's an interesting debate... keep us advised if you find anything more on it. I would think all that red bone maro would reap big benifits.

Speaking of poop... he really hasn't eaten much, in the grand scheme... he went 2 days without, then most of 2 qrts, then ate most of 3 but puked up 2, then 2 yesterday. He still really hasn't pooped. I know that he should digest most of it and being his body uses most of the nietrients therefor doesn't poop much. Is this normal? I did listen to his bowls tonight and I can hear them doing their normal squishy noises. He hasn't puked other than 2 days ago.

Oh and I duplicated yesterday. Same style prep, 1 qrt, wait an hour, 2nd qrt. He seem to like it. I know the yard is poop free so if he does do the deed when I'm not watching, I'll know.

OK I have a correction...

He must have pooped last night (twice/2 of them) before he went to bed. Very small, very light in weight & color, with no odor.

This is great because his poop has been very soft, goo patties lately due to anti-biotics and clariton pills daily.

Further, I think I have noticed a significant lack of water drinking in comparison to kibble diet. He use to be almost obcessed with water, and now not so much. Please confirm, but I think the kibble was so dry (in comparison to the chicken) that it caused him to drink more.

Man, I'll tell you - I read your posts and you are SO MUCH more attentive to this than I was with Sadie. I mean, I just went with it. You're attention to detail is much higher than mine. :lol:

Sadie did drink less water than she did with kibble. I think your reasoning is on target.

You got it. Don't forget the veggie portion of the diet.

Correct, most dogs on the raw diet drink less water for that reason.

Wait... you weigh your dog's poo?

Smells it too apparently. :lol

Well, with my dogs there's little choice with that...

You don't?


:lol:

Well thank you I think. Remember though. This is my kid.

Thanks. But I was told to wait like 2 weeks before introducing anything besides chicken.

But it brings up another great question. What veggie do you all suggest to start with? Potatoes and carrot? Just slice and serve? Did the dog go for them?

poop....

I didn't weight it so much as I flicked it onto my scooper and when you're use to dog shit the size I am. You'll notice when he only craps a 1/3 the amount.

And as I said. He's been shittin moon pies for the past couple months. Which stink horribly and you can barely pick up. It sucks. But now he's shittin the previously stated different poop.

Refer back to my GLOP posts.

That's what you did from the beginning?

Brinks is doing well. I'm sure he's lost weight, Uma noticed it when she returned from her vacation. But he's now up to 2.75 leg qrts where he should be.

Our butcher shop is running a fathers day weekend special on leg quarters... over the counter $0.59lb so I'm sure my case price will be cheap. I think I'm going to buy 3 cases if it's down around $0.50lb cause that saves me like $0.14lb or about $8 a case.

Also going to pick up other various meats... both for him and us. They got this awesome deal going on now for meat bundle that I think we're buying for us.
http://www.cattlemansmeats.com/pdfs/...sday2011-1.pdf

And we are going to introduce GLOP to his diet. Just ordered for store pick up a Kenmore Elite food processor. Hopefully it lasts... it is a 800 watt motor. on sale as well.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...ckType=G2#desc

I tell ya though... the freezer, and now processor does make this more expensive initially.

Well picked up the food processor... it's a beast!
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3...TgxOC5qcGc.jpg

Bought carrots, lettuce, cucumber, garlic to make the veggy glop.
Frozen berries, apple, pear, yogurt to make the fruit glop. We bought bananas as well but forgot to put them in.

We combined all that and had Brinks taste testing it the whole way.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3...TgxOC5qcGc.jpg

Like Vators it doesn't look good and while the fruit style tasted good, when you mixed in the garlicy veggy, it tasted funky. But Brinks LOVE LOVE LOVED it. He was drooling waiting for his next taste.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3...TgxOC5qcGc.jpg

Damn... that does make it way more expensive... You've got over $300 in equipment... Based on our dogs, it would take about a year to break even between all of this equipment and the food itself... Over the life of the dogs it should work out well though... We just need to find a good butcher here in Orlando...

All it takes is not having to go to the vet once and it all pays for itself. Of course, there's no real way to measure that, but in my case I've never had to take a dog to the vet for sickness...

Or, the fact that my dog is still alive. I'm sure she wouldn't be here today if we would have stayed on that diet.

That, my friend, is truly priceless.

Well, to be honest though... I'm also using the freezer to store more long term meat deals, like the mega meat deal I got when I picked up his chicken. So that's ok. Plus the food processor can have other means of use for us. It's not like these large priced items are dog only. Hell not even his food is. If I want to bbq some chicken (non breast) I got plenty!

And we are hoping to have this benifit as well.

This.

Yeah absolutely... I totally wasn't knocking it, just breaking it down cost-wise...

Oh yeah... I am down to have a ton of meat on hand... Can't ever have too much meat.

That's what she said

Is there a guideline on how much glop to give the dogs? Say an amount per 50# or somin? Just unsure on quanity.

Well glop still works. Some of the charm has worn off with him, however, the good thing is, that it's flavor should change every time. We have just been giving him about 2 heaping table spoons a day. Think it's enough?

He's eating his full 3 chicken quarters each day, warmed in a pan. But we are trying to squeeze in completely raw pieces in as well. But overall, seems well with it.