Crossed up!
 

Ugh. So I just got my pics back from this weekend. I knew it but I now have photographic evidence.

I am so freakin' crossed up it's not even funny. I can start to get my ass off the seat and my leg out....but it's like my arms and upper body will not move!

Anyone else have to get past this? Any tips?

Kiss the mirror. That is what they have told me. I now work on shifting my upper body first and let my lower body follow.

This is one aspect where it just takes comfort in getting use to it. I don't mean like physical comfort, but in riding comfort where you feel like you aren't falling off the bike or having to slow to adjust to the new position. The best advice is to try to get further towards the mirror, but don't lose a comfortable position that allows you to ride the best. Racers are the only ones that really need to hang off like a damned monkey, you just need to find where your upper body is relaxed and you feel you can push the bike the best, if you feel you can ride a good pace and you are working on getting your body off more, that's all you need to do. Don't sacrifice the comfort level of your riding in trying to look the part.

For most it is a natural reaction. They feel comfortable "on" the bike and don't want to stray too far.

So many people talk about "getting your ass off the seat" or "dragging a knee" that most noobs think that is all there is to body position.

The kiss the mirrors is a good example. Another I have used is to pretend that there is a vertical board where your upper fairing is, force yourself to look around it.

If you lead with your upper body, your hips will follow.

I was told to try and check my makeup in the mirror.

Guess I don't wear enough makeup. :lmao:

I'm going to try leading with my upper body though. I think that would help!

I'm no expert, but hanging off with your spine in a straight line parallel to the bike is great form and it also allows you to achieve a neutral balanced feel with your outside arm resting on the tank and/or your thigh. It also means you have a lot less leverage to move the bike in a hurry, especially it you are on a heavy bike that requires some force. Or if you are riding something with an explosive power band that may require some immediate correction in multiple directions at once to stay off the ground. But I guess most bikes don't behave that way anymore. When it feels serene, it is right for you, regardless of how it looks in a picture and when you are comfortable with the ride, you will go faster without seeming to.

Drop the inside elbow and shoulder. Graze the tank with your chest. Look into the turn. Use the other arm to brace against the tank.

Put your bike on a rearstand and practice shifting from side to side.

Right turn, left tit on the tank. Left turn, right tit on the tank.

Funny funny funny

Bend your elbow. You'll have no choice but to move your upper off. Try to get your armpit directly over the gas cap. Not touching it, but over it. I'm not a fan of kissing the mirror because I don't like the way it makes me feel.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...5-17-08108.jpg

I'm sorry, but in the past hour since I read that, I have put way too much thought into how that works

:lol:
I agree.

You should be looking straight over your mirror. I can tell when I'm getting there- all I can see is my chinbar in the mirror. Usually puts the outside of the tank in the crook of my elbow. Since my legs are so damn long, I can't wedge the seat into the back of my knee like shorter guys do.

One of the NESBA CRs told me to grab the inside bar/barend like a pencil to force the elbow into the right position. It's supposed to make moving you shoulders down and into the turn easier. Basically, move you palm out and everything else will follow.

Also, don't forget the "shuffle" heel back and in- squeezed against the heel guard on your rearsets, end of the peg gripped between your toes.

Just lock your outside knee on the tank; it should be able to support your whole body weight. Lead with your head instead of your butt. Try it in the pits on your kickstand until you find the right position, then go out and experiment.

Wow I've learned more from this thread than when I ask people.

under

True, but to get yourself to do this and feel comfortable just requires more track time. I hate to be the one to break it to you, but you just need a few more track days :)

Only you derf.

You talking to her when you said more track time is needed? I agree. But these are things that can also be practiced on the street! And not a warp speeds either. Getting the basics right will feel awkward at first...way awkward. The ultimate goal of the basics are to get you comfortable with the fundamentals of aggressive riding, while setting you up to feel feedback from your bike and be able to adjust if need be. I try not to get too in depth with a new rider because it might be too much information to grasp at once.

The basic body positioning is the most important to learn. Once you do, you can tweak it to fit your style. For example, I don't like to lean my upper down and forward to kiss the mirror because I feel too vulnerable if I do get some bad feedback. I feel like I'm in no position to make an adjustment leaned way over like that.

Yes, I was talking to Kelly when I said more track time. I was kidding, some what. Like you said, you can practice this on the street... which to me is much easier than sitting in the pits. Granted that will help, but I think actually riding and practicing will help more.

You will get there Kelly.

No not just me, I'm just the only one to say whats on my mind.


On a slightly off topic note, I saw something that I could use the other day, it was a small plastic gizmo that sticks on the edge of the gas tank to help you lock your knee in it. I've been searching for it and have yet to find it. Its not the pads with small spikes on them that dig into your leg, I tried those and didnt care for em, it sits on the side crease of the tank and just sticks out a bit giving a lip to lock your knee on

There's been great advice in this thread...I learned a few things too


But the best thing said IMHO is


I use to hang off like a friggin monkey thinking I needed too, then I went up to shady valley and rode with Clay for a weekend, and learned a thing or 12.

After a few track days and being told comfort level was the key to getting faster, THEN work on body form as the speed increases, I was able to feel better about the form I had.

What does it matter if you LOOK the part, yet are getting passed by old farts on dual sports sitting straight up?

:lol: The only time I can look under my mirror is when I'm crashing. See, I have low mirrors and I'm a tall guy, so no way that's happening.

I totally understand what you're saying. I'm not the type to just "look the part" and in fact have had more than my fair share of giggles at people who do this. I've never been one to throw my knee out for the sake of it and only move around a bit when I feel like it or feel it would help. Really there is almost no need for *most* of my riding (on the street at least).

I think it's a comfort level that will come for me.

I'm working on the smooth first - fast later school of track day riding. :lmao: I am very smooth and have trained myself to focus on the little things, slowly adding them together. Body positioning is the next logical step for me.

Unfortunately track days are also done for me until April (unless I can swing a trip to Jennings in January).

GREAT advice in this thread! Thanks everyone!

Great thread...thanks for all of the ideas.

Eh......I would be worried about such a device breaking off at the worst possible time.

What Sean said FTW!

The best advice I got from a female control rider (one built like me) was tits to the tank!! But this only works for tall women, or like myself, women built like spider monkeys! :lol: My shorter friends dont have the reach of leg or arm and have to position differently. Find a CR built like yourself and ask her what she does.

I practice my form on the street too, just for fun, so that now, even when taking it easy on the street, I immediately fall into at least somewhat proper form for turns and such, just because its a comfort thing. It just takes practice. *hint* You can also do it going in a straight line to get a feel for it at speed...just saying. :lol:

Take a look at this photo... and before anyone makes a keyboard commando comment... look at the number on his number plate.

Case in point, you need to be comfortable, and develop your own style. Being a little crossed up gives you more ability to work the bars and recover from a moment than hanging off dramatically, although that also has its own benefits. The most important thing is to use a position that allows you to relax your arms, bend the elbow, etc.

http://www.owenssportsphotos.com/Pho...90912a179l.jpg

Here is one of the other very fast guys from our local series. Drastically different positioning, similar speed.

http://www.owenssportsphotos.com/Pho...90912a183l.jpg

LOL....he's dragging his knee on grass, nice

True.

There will always be exceptions. A few of the very fast guys I know prefer the more upright style in your first picture. Almost every one of them comes from an MX background.

Still, Eric's form is more "textbook" proper.

There is a huge difference in a fast guy with an upright (not crossed up) position and a newbie trying to look like Doohan.

http://digilander.libero.it/tortugam...are-doohan.jpg

Well I might get a chance to work on some stuff this weekend.

Bike was put away for the winter but temps have risen and track days are being run this weekend. :tremble:

go for it!

Doohans positioning would make me afraid I'd scrape my ass instead of my knee!!

After working with and being yelled at by Doug Polen, I have to agree with him... y'all make body position entirely too complicated :lol: It should be minimal movement and not hanging all the way off the bike - YOU should still be centered on the bike.

FRU

But it's fun to chat about :lol

:iagree:

Great thread.
:nothing:

my fashionably late .02....

I see a lot of people that start experimenting with body positioning in what most teachers would consider to be the opposite order of operations... they start trying to hang off starting from the bottom up and end up being surprised that they're all crossed up... If you wanna avoid that, you gotta start at the top & work your way down.

Step 1 - get your chin pointed through the turn.
Step 2 - start leaning your shoulders into the turn. Keep your arms relaxed.
Step 3 - start weighting the inside butt cheek.
Step 4 - slide your hips over.


Obviously that's very simplified, but my point is, when beginning to work on your body positioning, it's often better to start hiiiigh to get lowww.

i dont think my bike could even get that far over. not while keeping its stator anyway :lol:

btw, does that say bankai on his back? :lol:

Tanakai

they made his leathers.

Well, tweaked some things and got some advice from an instructor at the track and have made huge improvements in my form.

Now I just need to work on some other things. :lmao: