Tire balancing
 

How picky or sensitive are you to tire balancing?

My tire installer does not balance my tires, the same weight stays on it, and thus far I nor any of the other guys I ride with have had issues. So no I'm not picky about it.

Not picky and I do most of my own tire changes.

Tom

Picky enough that even when I let someone else mount them, I usually balance them myself.

dyna beads FTW

decently picky... not gonna kill 20+ min getting it perfect though. but I take my time.

with the knobbies... I'll get them close... but if it takes longer than 2 maybe 3 min... I'm done. can't really feel it with the knobbs anyhow

I had a guy that could balance the tire with no weight, just by mounting it. Worked on every tire, every time. He's throw it on the balancer to prove it.

You should be able to. WIth proper alignment to the valve stem

I pay to have it done. It's cheap enough.

Ditto

If a bike see's 100+ then it needs proper balancing (IMHO) and I'm not chancing that

Exactly. This guy knows his shit. His shop is up by my dad's place.

And good wheels...

the only time mine wouldn't balance right off the changer was when my wheels had started to egg. Got new wheels, problem solved.

Yes and no.

Most street tires come "pre-balanced", in that there will be a small blue or yellow dot, usually on or next to the bead, that indicates the lightest part of the tire. This mark is 180 degrees from where the cords or belts overlap, which would be the heaviest part of the tire. Theoretically, this mark is installed at the valve stem, which is the heaviest part of the rim.

This is not, however, not completely accurate. It's just a starting point. By rotating the tire on the rim, you can decrease the amount of weight needed, sometimes all the way to zero. Most shops will not do this, because it is extremely time consuming. You have to keep moving the tire/rim back and forth between the changing machine and the balancer, and adjust the dot placement as you go, about an inch at a time. Huge PITA.

Even if the mark is installed at the valve stem, you can still be off as much as 2-3 oz., and that's a lot of weights. I will usually try to get a tire down to .75 oz, or less, before I stop fucking with it.

Troy is right, it's best to get your tires balanced as close to perfect as you can, especially if your going to run at triple digits. Find a shop that has a computerized dynamic balancer if possible. These machines will not only balance the tire "top-to-bottom" but also side to side. You're not going to get it any better than that.

Oh, my answer is very picky, if you haven't already guessed. :lol:

JC

I've never had an issue with one being out of balance or at least I've never noticed any of my tires being out. If I noticed it I would want it corrected but again...never had an issue with any tire change. :idk:

I need to talk to this guy!

Good post, though I did know it was a PITA to do. I too am very picky and sensitive to even slight imbalance. One of the first things I do it hit 100+ just to see if they did t right. I have found a place, knock on wood, that does a nice job. I think they have the computer balancer. I know it isn't the bubble balancer like the dealership closest to me.

Dugan's Cycle in Duncannon, PA. :cheers:

I hear ya. I'm just saying it SHOULD be able to be done.

Don't matter to me. I run beads and therefor it only costs me about $6 a wheel and they are balenced better than stick/clamp on weights. IMO

I still can't understand how a bunch of free floating weight in your tire would balance it.

If that's the case, water in the tires would have the same effect and be cheaper.

I don't typically care whether its balanced or not... I can handle some vibrations... its not going to make me go down lol.

Read up on it. I have posted links many times.

BUt I have put them in countless bikes. They work.

There's no need to read up on it.

They're not magic beads. They can't search out a spot in your tire that needs weight. If anything they will spread out evenly throughout the tire and make it the exact same as before.
Centrifugal force dictates this.

If you think they work for you, peace of mind is all that matters.


But, scientifically speaking, they don't make any sense.

Your heaviest spot on your tire will be thrown out the hardest by the forces being applied. The beads, if anything, would go to that spot and amplify the effect.

I heard some good reviews about the Dyna beads, but so far no one has been able to answer the one question I have about them, which is:

How do you know they're working? Is it just by "feel"?

Also, this blurb from their website makes no sense to me:

Can I put the tire on a balancer to see if it's working?

No. Dyna Beads operates on physics principles, and requires the tire assembly to be in motion against a road surface to detect the exact counterbalance position. An electronic balancer has a solid, fixed mount, and does not allow the tire to react to imbalance.

Ok. I balanced and installed more tires than I can count, back when I owned a shop. Ballpark- maybe close to 1000. I don't claim to be an expert on all things tire, but the highlighted statement is completely false. Obviously electronic balancers allow the tire to react to imbalance, since, well, that's what they fucking do.

I'm not saying they don't work, because frankly, I don't know. But it bothers me that there is no apparent way to test them, or compare them to traditional balancing, other than the "seat of the pants" method.

JC

I did do a bit of reading ala google. And mcn reviewed em, said they didn't do anything.

Some ppl say they cause severe imbalance at high speeds.


Then I happen upon an idea that put it to rest for me. How come the only proof they have is a water bottle and a drill? Where is the documentation? The racers who use them? The scientific documentation?

Of the several threads I've read on different forums they all say the same, "they make no sense".

And then somebody posted a dynabeads FAQ which stated they would not work on "race" tires because the rubber is too soft.

:lol

Amj, there are ways to show they work. They just don't seem to want to prove it.

Do a video of an unbalanced tire, throw the beads in and show the video of that. Problem solved.

I'm with you on this one. If they don't show being in balance on a spin balancer, they ain't balanced.

Centrifugal force doesn't come and go depending on whether or not the tire is touching a road surface.

I also don't see how the beads would have any effect at all, on lateral balance, since centrifugal force would dictate that the beads would seek the center of the tire only.

JC

I've never even head of these Dyna beads. Doesn't sound like anything I want.

Great... nothing like an 11 hour drive to have 2 tires balanced. Oh well.

For me it isn't about going down, it is about comfort and my hands/arms not going numb from the shake. I can feel the slightest imperfection.

I don't know guys. All I can tell you is that I have been runing them in 4 of my own bikes. Removed 1-2 oz from each tire that I put beads in. Works great!

Put them in a few choppers that had 100mph wobbles. Beads in... no more wobble.

I have probably installed these in 2 dozen bikes myself. EVERY SINGLE ONE has had great results.

For what its worth, Drewpy was also running them in the RC as well.

i can feel it too... but it doesnt bother me lol. I don't do a lot of "cruising" where it would bother me really. I guess i got used to it over the years. Rather deal w/ a slight shake and get used to it then be anal about having it smooth as butter.

When rocking through the twisties.. it makes no difference. Hard on the gas.. hard on the brakes... pucks on the ground... its all stable.

I always line up the heavy point of the wheel with the light mark on the tire and rarely need much, if any weight. In my experience the valve stem is almost never the heavy point of a cast wheel.

It does and it is. Truckers have been balancing tires with a couple of cups of coolant for years. Lately we've been installing balancers on trucks too. It's basically a ring that feels like it's full of sand or fine beads that can shift around inside it. It sits between the rim and drum. Keeps the tires balanced and the only real steer tire wear seems to come from poor alignment. If you know Heavy Truck steer tires, you know they need to be balanced well. (Especially Bridgstones:td:)

I've never really looked into why it works but it does seem to.

If you're adding a bunch of weight, I can see it acting as a damper.... That's the only logical reason I can come I with.

Weight as in wheel weights to balance it or the weight of the balancer we're installing? Because I dont think there is any wheel weights being installed with it and the weight of the balancer is not much at all.

I dont think these are the same brand that we use but it's the same idea.

http://www.centramatic.com/Page.aspx?page=Demo

By doing something like this you're also balancing the entire hub/drum/wheel assembly. Not just the wheel.

Has anyone else notice that dunlops seem to take a crap load of weight to be balance. I have never like dunlops but the few times I have ran them they take a lot to balance.

Not sure about motorcycles, but cars have something they call "road force balancing".

I personally just use a dial indicator to get the lowest runout I can.