Is Casey Stoner one of the best riders ever?

L8 Braker · 06-20-2011, 08:24 PM

I took most of the info from the great article below...I also used MotoGP.com for stats reference...

CLICK HERE FOR ARTICLE

So let's talk facts...

--At age 25, he's already a premier class MotoGP champion
--he already has more premier class victories than legends Kenny Roberts, Barry Sheene, Freddie Spencer, Wayne Gardner, Wayne Rainey, and Kevin Schwantz
--he's only 4 victories shy of being even with 4 time GP champion Eddie Lawson
--the only other riders with more premier class victories are Lawson, Hailwood, Doohan, Agostini, and Rossi
--he has 27 premier class victories - Pedrosa and Lorenzo have 28 COMBINED
--he's s scored more victories during his time in MotoGP than Rossi has over that same span (27 to 26), while also notching up seven more pole positions than his nemesis (26 to 19)
--when he wins, it's typically by an extremely large margin

So, regardless of the abrasive persona, the public fights with Rossi, the constant claims of whining, the "it's the bike, not the rider" fodder, and other rumblings, you can't deny his numbers...The boy can ride, and is headed towards being one of the greatest riders the sport has ever seen...

Trip · 06-20-2011, 08:27 PM

I think he has taken a ton of heat because when he is not running away with it, he has been pushed easily to making mistakes. Laguna Seca comes to mind.

Particle Man · 06-20-2011, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip

I think he has taken a ton of heat because when he is not running away with it, he has been pushed easily to making mistakes. Laguna Seca comes to mind.

Yeah I seem to recall several times when he ended up in the dirt for dumb reasons. He came back from it (or was far enough ahead that it didn't matter) but still...

tached1000rr · 06-20-2011, 08:40 PM

As a rider I'd say yes, as a finisher/racer he has to learn to modulate a bit more....

Porkchop · 06-20-2011, 08:57 PM

Other than Rossi, who has the Duc hampering this season, Stoner is the only rider out there that makes me feel like he is in another league. Pedobear and Whoregay have just never given me that feeling that there is just something special about the rider. I think Rossi is showing what Stoner had to deal with for all those years. Who knows where he would be had he not had to fight the inadequacies of the Duc and its front end. How many races did he have sizeable leads only to pitch it into the rocks when the front went. Havn't seen that front move this whole season on the Honda.... well other than when Rossi went flying underneath of him. Doh

askmrjesus · 06-20-2011, 08:59 PM

Rider? Sure. Put him in the front, and he goes like stink, no doubt about it.

Racer? Not so much.

I think the reason he's so fast at the front, is because he's scared to death of those icky people in the leather suits that are chasing him.

Additionally and plus, the stats comparing him to Roberts, Hailwood, Agostini, et al, fail to factor in the machinery used at the time. Stoner would curl up die of mysterious stomach cramps, if he had to compete on the beasties those guys raced on.

I'll give credit where it's due, but Casey is not on the same par as the "Great Ones". He's a runner, not a fighter.

JC

Porkchop · 06-20-2011, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

Rider? Sure. Put him in the front, and he goes like stink, no doubt about it.

Racer? Not so much.

I think the reason he's so fast at the front, is because he's scared to death of those icky people in the leather suits that are chasing him.

Additionally and plus, the stats comparing him to Roberts, Hailwood, Agostini, et al, fail to factor in the machinery used at the time. Stoner would curl up die of mysterious stomach cramps, if he had to compete on the beasties those guys raced on.

I'll give credit where it's due, but Casey is not on the same par as the "Great Ones". He's a runner, not a fighter.

JC

Shit, you play with the machinery you gots. Its like a Babe Ruth/Albert Pujols or Cy Young/Roy Halladay argument. Its almost not comparable, but you have to for the sake of numbers. I know many people argue that none of these kids would be superstars without the help of modern day electronics, but I dont agree. They got here for a reason, and if they didnt have electronics, they would have gotten there without them. You adapt to what you have and what you dont have. Thats why they're at the top of the game.

L8 Braker · 06-20-2011, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

Additionally and plus, the stats comparing him to Roberts, Hailwood, Agostini, et al, fail to factor in the machinery used at the time. Stoner would curl up die of mysterious stomach cramps, if he had to compete on the beasties those guys raced on.

I'll give credit where it's due, but Casey is not on the same par as the "Great Ones". He's a runner, not a fighter.

JC

Here's the thing about all that...

You can only race within the rules and technology that exists during your time and the idea is to be the best of whatever era to which you belong...And if that's the traction control era, then so be it -- but ultimately, that's the goal for Stoner, Rossi, and the rest...

derf · 06-21-2011, 12:00 AM

He's good, one of the better ones out there today, but not the best ever. AMJ said it best:

Quote:

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

Rider? Sure. Put him in the front, and he goes like stink, no doubt about it.

Racer? Not so much.

And yes you can compare racers from different eras, just need to look at them comparitevly as how they were looked at in their era.

KSGregman · 06-21-2011, 10:21 AM

One of the "Best Riders Ever" doesn't blow off half a season with a nervous break down after attempting to go toe to toe with a REAL Greatest of All Time and losing.....and then lie about it....concoct some bullshit story about lactose intolerance or whatever it was that he whined on about.

He's a weak minded, whiny little cunt. It's laughable to mention him in the same sentence as Mick Doohan or Wayne Rainey. I mean, SERIOUSLY....Rossi broke him in 2 races....those old school guys would have driven him out of the sport entirely. He doesn't have the mental toughness to hang....period.

View Poll Results: Is Stoner one of the greatest riders ever?
Yes	9	56.25%
No	7	43.75%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

06-20-2011, 08:24 PM	#1
L8 Braker Swollen Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 558	Is Casey Stoner one of the best riders ever? I took most of the info from the great article below...I also used MotoGP.com for stats reference... CLICK HERE FOR ARTICLE So let's talk facts... --At age 25, he's already a premier class MotoGP champion --he already has more premier class victories than legends Kenny Roberts, Barry Sheene, Freddie Spencer, Wayne Gardner, Wayne Rainey, and Kevin Schwantz --he's only 4 victories shy of being even with 4 time GP champion Eddie Lawson --the only other riders with more premier class victories are Lawson, Hailwood, Doohan, Agostini, and Rossi --he has 27 premier class victories - Pedrosa and Lorenzo have 28 COMBINED --he's s scored more victories during his time in MotoGP than Rossi has over that same span (27 to 26), while also notching up seven more pole positions than his nemesis (26 to 19) --when he wins, it's typically by an extremely large margin So, regardless of the abrasive persona, the public fights with Rossi, the constant claims of whining, the "it's the bike, not the rider" fodder, and other rumblings, you can't deny his numbers...The boy can ride, and is headed towards being one of the greatest riders the sport has ever seen...

06-20-2011, 08:40 PM	#4
tached1000rr WERA White Plate Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NC Moto: 2009 GSXR 1300 Posts: 2,448	As a rider I'd say yes, as a finisher/racer he has to learn to modulate a bit more.... Last edited by tached1000rr; 06-20-2011 at 09:01 PM..

06-20-2011, 08:57 PM	#5
Porkchop 125GP Champion Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Worthington, OH Moto: Empty Garage Posts: 3,418	Other than Rossi, who has the Duc hampering this season, Stoner is the only rider out there that makes me feel like he is in another league. Pedobear and Whoregay have just never given me that feeling that there is just something special about the rider. I think Rossi is showing what Stoner had to deal with for all those years. Who knows where he would be had he not had to fight the inadequacies of the Duc and its front end. How many races did he have sizeable leads only to pitch it into the rocks when the front went. Havn't seen that front move this whole season on the Honda.... well other than when Rossi went flying underneath of him. Doh __________________ *Coming soon? 2010 Ducati Monster 696 - Sold 1984 Honda VF500F - Sold 1999 Yamaha R6 - Sold

06-20-2011, 08:59 PM	#6
askmrjesus Soul Man Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Everywhere, all the time. Moto: '0000 Custom Turbo Cross (with jet kit). Posts: 6,481	Rider? Sure. Put him in the front, and he goes like stink, no doubt about it. Racer? Not so much. I think the reason he's so fast at the front, is because he's scared to death of those icky people in the leather suits that are chasing him. Additionally and plus, the stats comparing him to Roberts, Hailwood, Agostini, et al, fail to factor in the machinery used at the time. Stoner would curl up die of mysterious stomach cramps, if he had to compete on the beasties those guys raced on. I'll give credit where it's due, but Casey is not on the same par as the "Great Ones". He's a runner, not a fighter. JC __________________ The way things are going, they're gonna crucify me.

06-21-2011, 10:21 AM	#10
KSGregman Get Fit...or Get OUT Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: KS Moto: 07 M109-R Posts: 1,993	One of the "Best Riders Ever" doesn't blow off half a season with a nervous break down after attempting to go toe to toe with a REAL Greatest of All Time and losing.....and then lie about it....concoct some bullshit story about lactose intolerance or whatever it was that he whined on about. He's a weak minded, whiny little cunt. It's laughable to mention him in the same sentence as Mick Doohan or Wayne Rainey. I mean, SERIOUSLY....Rossi broke him in 2 races....those old school guys would have driven him out of the sport entirely. He doesn't have the mental toughness to hang....period.