Touqe or Bhp

[HRCNICK11]

Again, why are long stroke big blocks used for max acceleration? Ala; dragsters? Why aren't they v12 lambo motors?

Cause they have a good mix of both, enough torque to get them moving and enough power on top to put up the big numbers.

A good motor has one or the other a great motor has both. Torque and the ablity to rev out.

[Avatard]

Originally Posted by Tmall

Again, why are long stroke big blocks used for max acceleration? Ala; dragsters? Why aren't they v12 lambo motors?

If throttle response was relevant to that form of racing, they would use V12s.

Fact is, they wind that shit way the fuck up, and apply a slipper clutch. ONCE.

Throttle response is almost irrelevant. Clutch response is, in fact, everything.

[HRCNICK11]

were not defending anything. The whole point we started with was simple. Torque is a real force, hp is a number from a formula. HCRnick doesnt understand that.

But I later pointed out that they are both just a way humans measure work and are no different.

[karl_1052]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

And? Does that mean Formula 1 guys should all of a sudden install tractor engines with a 50-speed gearbox, just because it COULD reach 250 mph? Ain't gonna happen -- such a drivetrain would weigh too much and take too much space.

And as far as drag racing? Let's take one of the most popular classes, Pro Stock......those engines are ~500 cubic in V-8's that put out around 2,000 hp and 1,500 lb-ft of torque.............hardly the "stump puller" type of ratio that you torque fans are advocating.

Look, everyone wants low-end torque.......I don't know anyone who doesn't. But there's a balance. I don't particularly like cars or bikes that start running out of steam or vibrating to death (like Ford 302's would) at only 4-5K rpm. Personal preference.

Pro stock cars make approximately 900 lb/ft of torque at 7000RPM which equates to 1200hp. Nobody here ever advocated racing a 2500lb deisel engine. All we are saying is that torque is a measurable, quatifiable force, and horsepower is not. It is a calculation.

[HRCNICK11]

If throttle response was relevant to that form of racing, they would use V12s.

Fact is, they wind that shit way the fuck up, and apply a slipper clutch. ONCE.

Throttle response is almost irrelevant. Clutch response is, in fact, everything.

Are you sure with all that torque they should be able to just idle off the line and cross the finish at about 2000 rpms. <----being a smartass.

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by HRCNICK11

But I later pointed out that they are both just a way humans measure work and are no different.

but they are very different. Torque is a real force, like a push or a pull. HP is just a measurement.

[HRCNICK11]

I'm just waiting for Jay Leno to set the land speed record with his Stanley Steamer! That Stanley Steamer is a torque monster!

[Avatard]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

Sure it makes sense. If you guys had your way, they'd be racing Peterbuilt semi-tractor engines, which typically have like 1200-1500 lb-ft of torque, but only 400-500 hp. But I don't see anyone doing that, do you?

A former friend used to be a very well known [drag and circle track] engine builder. He was a rare cat in that he understood both the math, and the black arts of making power.

He laid it all out for me one day, but it was a tad beyond my ken (I grasped the concepts as he explained them, though I did not retain it all)...but what the essence of his math stated was consistent with what racers know; RPMs are everything. This goes against the "torque is everything" logic.

Engines are very application specific. I don't think you can use general rules to define what is most important, as that simply varies by application.

[HRCNICK11]

but they are very different. Torque is a real force, like a push or a pull. HP is just a measurement.

Of force at a certain RPM.
just like torque is a force over a certain distance.

[HRCNICK11]

Engines are very application specific. I don't think you can use general rules to define what is most important, as that simply varies by application.

Correct like if your pulling a house down the road a crap load of torque is needed. But if you pushing a gokart around a road corse a crap load of RPM is great.