Health Care..what do you think?

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

And what is the "cause" that's being stated in your argument?

Healthcare, but that is immaterial to an argument about the logic of the statement. It could be credit cards, car loans, or doritos budget and it would remain the same.

I think where we are diverging is you are interpreting the second portion "healthcare causes a lot of bankruptcies" differently than I intended. I did not mean healthcare causes a lot of the bankruptcies that occur, that was covered in the first portion. What I am trying to demonstrate is the difference between proportion (first part) and often it actually occurs (second part).

Using made up numbers for demonstration purposes, say 70% of all bankruptcies in the US are caused by medical bills (proportion, first part of my statement, sounds like a lot), but if there are only 10 bankruptcies in the US per year, only 7 bankruptcies are caused by medical bills (actual occurrences, second part of my statement, not a lot). Does it make more sense now?

[Papa_Complex]

Your statement was:

health care == bankruptcies

bankruptcies =/= heathcare

If that wasn't what you meant, then you need to work on your wording. Changing the position of congruencies in an equation doesn't alter the value of them.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Your statement was:

health care == bankruptcies

bankruptcies =/= heathcare

If that wasn't what you meant, then you need to work on your wording. Changing the position of congruencies in an equation doesn't alter the value of them.

This is true if what you described above is the only possible interpretation of the statement. There are other possibilities. While I agree that my wording of the initial statement could have been better I would have thought explaining it 3 times would have made it clearer.

Regardless of the wording of my statement, your original statement was factually incorrect (stating medical costs rather than medical issues as the primary cause of bankruptcies) as well as logically incorrect (assuming a large proportion of bankruptcies = a large number of bankruptcies). Do you understand why or do I need to explain it further?

[Tsunami]

How do Canadian doctors get paid, is it just one flat salary or do they get paid per patient?

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by Tsunami

How do Canadian doctors get paid, is it just one flat salary or do they get paid per patient?

Depends.

[was92v]

I have insurance through work that I pay for, as well as ST disability, LT disability, dental and vision that I pay extra for. I don't see a doctor often, in fact it has been years since I've seen one.
Today I watched the PP presentation for the 2010 changes. Woo Hoo the rates aren't going up as much as they had in the past! Oh! but my deductible is going to be $5,000.00 individual or $10,000.00 per year for family coverage. But that is just 25% of take home and my taxes are cheap, only 20%. Good thing we don't have state income or local taxes, well except for that 9.75% sales tax thing.
I just wish that I hadn't noticed that 4 or5 people at work this past year were fired 6 weeks after coming back from serious medical events. But I guess ya gotta do something to keep the insurance rates down, even if it means putting them in the unemployment line. I sure hope I don't get sick. Big bills and then no job would really be stressful at my age. But I'm old, it probably wouldn't bother you young guys.

[Papa_Complex]

Guess all that you want. Would that money be from individuals, or government?

[was92v]

I wonder what we would live like with no Social programs forced on us at all? No Govt, no taxes, no hospitals, no roads or schools, or police or fire protection, no water, electric or sanitation or communications. Oh and no Doctors or medical since a lot of the education is paid for by govt grants and govt backed loans. Sounds like where I live, about 250 years ago. Though it probably would be more like the tribal areas of Afghanistan/Pakistan in reality. What a wonderful place to raise the kids in.

[Smittie61984]

Haha. That's just retarded.

First off I'm not advocating anarchy. I believe in the role of government but a minimal role, especially on the federal level.

I also find it funny that you guys think so little of yourself that you need someone like Biden or Bush to take care of you.

Originally Posted by was92v

I wonder what we would live like with no Social programs forced on us at all? No Govt, no taxes,
no hospitals - There are plenty of private hospitals that do 10x better than any governmetn ran hospital. Want to see a government run, fuck up of a hospital? Check out Grady Hospital in Atlanta. By the way they are currently bankrupt and full of corruption
no roads - Roads are essentially a voluntary tax. If you don't buy gasoline then you don't pay taxes for roadways. Interstates were originally set up for the US Military, a legit role of government. And most road construction is done by private contractors
no schools - Well those are just fuck up factories. You can go to some of the best private schools for less than a car payment. But gotta keep up with the Joneses.
No police or fire protection - Police protect innocent people from bad people. Well actually they usually just investigate a crime (legit role of government). Fire? Well i've advocated that if a tax exempt organization like a church decides not to pay property taxes, then if they catch fire, let it burn.
no water - Our government water is so great that we spend billions more a year buying it in a bottle from PRIVATE COMPANIES
electric - Your electricity almost always comes from private companies. Here in Georgia I know of Georgia Power, Jackson EMC, Walton EMC, and then various other ones.
sanitation - Sanitation? Again, most sanitation departments are PRIVATELY owned
communications - Communications are done by private companies (I work for one), AT&T, Verizon, and Comcast to name a few
no Doctors or medical since a lot of the education is paid for by govt grants and govt backed loans - Most med schools I know of are private schools. I know Emory and Mercer in Atlanta and Macon are. Not sure about Medical College of Georgia in Augusta. Hopkins, Mayo, Harvard, etc are also privat. You can trust your doctor from Devry if you want

Yeah, we're helpless without Big Brother.

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by Smittie61984

Haha. That's just retarded.

First off I'm not advocating anarchy. I believe in the role of government but a minimal role, especially on the federal level.

I also find it funny that you guys think so little of yourself that you need someone like Biden or Bush to take care of you.



Yeah, we're helpless without Big Brother.

....the Ownage is getting bad here...