High Fructose Corn Syrup Causes More Weight Gain Than Sugar

[AquaPython]

i believe you about the current stats. what i don't see is evidence supporting your theory that it has always been that way.

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by AquaPython

i believe you about the current stats. what i don't see is evidence supporting your theory that it has always been that way.

you dont understand, it doesnt vary, its DNA makeup. A cow from a line of grain fed animals in a mountain somewhere, will have the same numerical breakdown that one in a barn forcefed corn has, cut for cut. The percentages will be the same. Unless we change their DNA, a lean cut of beef has always had, and will always have, 36 grams of protein per 100 grams of lean beef. Its a constant. Its the way their muscles form.

Now if you want to compare overall fat percentages, at live weight, then yes, you will find that the BF% of todays beef is much higher. But that doesnt change the composition of its muscle itself.

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by AquaPython

APOC - or anyone else.

prove it. you have a link or a study to show that this data is incorrect, from a source that is not directly supported by a food company. post it. i would love to read it.

Shouldn't the burden of proof be on you, since you made the original claim?

Protein levels dropping 70%........Dude........That would be instant death for any animal. Imagine taking all your muscle tissue, and cutting it by 70%.

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

Protein levels dropping 70%........Dude........That would be instant death for any animal. Imagine taking all your muscle tissue, and cutting it by 70%.

Ya, common sense would tell you that. But they prefer to blame the governement then themselves.

[AquaPython]

ok - i will not address the instant death argument, you are too much dude.

however,
i can and have provided information on here, or sources for it.

there are tons of articles on this stuff, here is good one for starters.
http://www.foodrevolution.org/grassfedbeef.htm

i am looking for the fat / protein thing is writing, but as i said, i paraphrased it from memory. it was from the documentary i posted "King Corn".

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by AquaPython

ok - i will not address the instant death argument, you are too much dude.

however,
i can and have provided information on here, or sources for it.

there are tons of articles on this stuff, here is good one for starters.
http://www.foodrevolution.org/grassfedbeef.htm

i am looking for the fat / protein thing is writing, but as i said, i paraphrased it from memory. it was from the documentary i posted "King Corn".

There is nothign there citing that beef has less protein when fed corn then when fed grass, nothing at all.

It talks about fats, and like I said above, yes, at live weight, a cow has much m. higher body fat percentage than a grass fed one will. Nobody is arguing that fact.

But, when you skin that beef, the vast majority of it it trimmed off, or attached to cuts you shouldnt be eating much of anyway. The ribs and back being the biggest culprit. When you look at these cuts, you see that there is inch thick veins of fat throughtout them. Grassfed beef will show quite a bit less of this fat, we agree on that. But our arguement is about lean meat. And lean meat will always have 36 grams of protein per 100 grams, and very negligible amounts of fat. You get much more of this lean meat off a bigger cow, making it more profitable and much faster to raise.

There is no too much about it. If a species lost 70% of its protein over 80 years, it would not survive, its that simple.

[AquaPython]

well the lean meat part is your argument. i just said beef originally. i am not arguing that different cuts of beef are leaner than others, i think it is common sense.

but you did say that

it doesnt vary, its DNA makeup. A cow from a line of grain fed animals in a mountain somewhere, will have the same numerical breakdown that one in a barn forcefed corn has, cut for cut. The percentages will be the same. Unless we change their DNA, a lean cut of beef has always had, and will always have, 36 grams of protein per 100 grams of lean beef. Its a constant. Its the way their muscles form.

however, if you look at the page i posted, or this except

Grain fed beef has more Omega-6, compared to the Omega-3 in the same meat. As mentioned earlier, when these two fatty acids is out of nutritional balance in a food that is consumed, it is not healthy for the body. This is a major difference between these two types of beef and tips the scale for health in the direction of grass fed.

Grain fed beef has a lot more saturated fat than grass fed beef. Saturated fat is, of course, a known factor in heart disease development. Reducing saturated fat in the diet is a good thing and grass fed beef can help.

Grain fed beef has less CLA, or Conjugated Linoleic Acid. CLA has been shown to reduce body fat, help with weight loss, increase metabolic rate, help to lower insulin resistance and cholesterol, among other health benefits.

Grass fed beef excels nutritionally in vitamin A, E and Beta Cartotene, over grain fed beef.

Grass fed beef is nutritionally superior to grain fed, for these reasons and more.

Learn more about why grain diets, in cattle and humans, are not healthy here

Some labeling can be deceptive too. In fact, most labeling can be which is why I suggest going to the website of the company, and asking some direct questions. For example, free range doesn't necessarily mean grass fed. It can mean that cattle are kept in small pastures and fed grain. Cage-free is one often used with chicken and it can just mean that the chickens were kept in crowded, tiny pens instead of cages.

from http://www.askahealer.com/grain-fed-beef.htm

there are obviously vast differences in the chemical make up of these animals muscle tissues.

i will try and find some written documentation on fats / proteins, but in the time, i again challenge you guys to come up with ONE iota of contrary data.

[AquaPython]

sorry it appears i was off by 3.33%

fats and more data:

Summary of Important Health Benefits of Grassfed Meats, Eggs and Dairy

Lower in Fat and Calories. There are a number of nutritional differences between the meat of pasture-raised and feedlot-raised animals. To begin with, meat from grass-fed cattle, sheep, and bison is lower in total fat. If the meat is very lean, it can have one third as much fat as a similar cut from a grain-fed animal. In fact, as you can see by the graph below, grass-fed beef can have the same amount of fat as skinless chicken breast, wild deer, or elk.[1] Research shows that lean beef actually lowers your "bad" LDL cholesterol levels.[2]

Data from J. Animal Sci 80(5):1202-11.

Because meat from grass-fed animals is lower in fat than meat from grain-fed animals, it is also lower in calories. (Fat has 9 calories per gram, compared with only 4 calories for protein and carbohydrates. The greater the fat content, the greater the number of calories.) As an example, a 6-ounce steak from a grass-finished steer can have 100 fewer calories than a 6-ounce steak from a grain-fed steer. If you eat a typical amount of beef (66.5 pounds a year), switching to lean grassfed beef will save you 17,733 calories a year—without requiring any willpower or change in your eating habits. If everything else in your diet remains constant, you'll lose about six pounds a year. If all Americans switched to grassfed meat, our national epidemic of obesity might diminish.

In the past few years, producers of grass-fed beef have been looking for ways to increase the amount of marbling in the meat so that consumers will have a more familiar product. But even these fatter cuts of grass-fed beef are lower in fat and calories than beef from grain-fed cattle.

Extra Omega-3s. Meat from grass-fed animals has two to four times more omega-3 fatty acids than meat from grain- fed animals. Omega-3s are called "good fats" because they play a vital role in every cell and system in your body. For example, of all the fats, they are the most heart-friendly. People who have ample amounts of omega-3s in their diet are less likely to have high blood pressure or an irregular heartbeat. Remarkably, they are 50 percent less likely to suffer a heart attack.[3] Omega-3s are essential for your brain as well. People with a diet rich in omega-3s are less likely to suffer from depression, schizophrenia, attention deficit disorder (hyperactivity), or Alzheimer's disease.[4]

Another benefit of omega-3s is that they may reduce your risk of cancer. In animal studies, these essential fats have slowed the growth of a wide array of cancers and also kept them from spreading.[5] Although the human research is in its infancy, researchers have shown that omega-3s can slow or even reverse the extreme weight loss that accompanies advanced cancer and also hasten recovery from surgery.[6,7]

Omega-3s are most abundant in seafood and certain nuts and seeds such as flaxseeds and walnuts, but they are also found in animals raised on pasture. The reason is simple. Omega-3s are formed in the chloroplasts of green leaves and algae. Sixty percent of the fatty acids in grass are omega-3s. When cattle are taken off omega-3 rich grass and shipped to a feedlot to be fattened on omega-3 poor grain, they begin losing their store of this beneficial fat. Each day that an animal spends in the feedlot, its supply of omega-3s is diminished.[8] The graph below illustrates this steady decline.

Data from: J Animal Sci (1993) 71(8):2079-88.

When chickens are housed indoors and deprived of greens, their meat and eggs also become artificially low in omega-3s. Eggs from pastured hens can contain as much as 10 times more omega-3s than eggs from factory hens.[9]

It has been estimated that only 40 percent of Americans consume an adequate supply of omega-3 fatty acids. Twenty percent have blood levels so low that they cannot be detected.[10] Switching to the meat, milk, and dairy products of grass-fed animals is one way to restore this vital nutrient to your diet.

The CLA Bonus. Meat and dairy products from grass-fed ruminants are the richest known source of another type of good fat called "conjugated linoleic acid" or CLA. When ruminants are raised on fresh pasture alone, their products contain from three to five times more CLA than products from animals fed conventional diets.[11] (A steak from the most marbled grass-fed animals will have the most CLA ,as much of the CLA is stored in fat cells.)

CLA may be one of our most potent defenses against cancer. In laboratory animals, a very small percentage of CLA—a mere 0.1 percent of total calories—greatly reduced tumor growth. [12] There is new evidence that CLA may also reduce cancer risk in humans. In a Finnish study, women who had the highest levels of CLA in their diet, had a 60 percent lower risk of breast cancer than those with the lowest levels. Switching from grain-fed to grassfed meat and dairy products places women in this lowest risk category.13 Researcher Tilak Dhiman from Utah State University estimates that you may be able to lower your risk of cancer simply by eating the following grassfed products each day: one glass of whole milk, one ounce of cheese, and one serving of meat. You would have to eat five times that amount of grain-fed meat and dairy products to get the same level of protection.

Vitamin E. In addition to being higher in omega-3s and CLA, meat from grassfed animals is also higher in vitamin E. The graph below shows vitamin E levels in meat from: 1) feedlot cattle, 2) feedlot cattle given high doses of synthetic vitamin E (1,000 IU per day), and 3) cattle raised on fresh pasture with no added supplements. The meat from the pastured cattle is four times higher in vitamin E than the meat from the feedlot cattle and, interestingly, almost twice as high as the meat from the feedlot cattle given vitamin E supplements. [14#] In humans, vitamin E is linked with a lower risk of heart disease and cancer. This potent antioxidant may also have anti-aging properties. Most Americans are deficient in vitamin E.

Data from: Smith, G.C. "Dietary supplementation of vitamin E to cattle to improve shelf life and case life of beef for domestic and international markets." Colorado State University, Fort Collins, Colorado 80523-1171

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by Sean

Whole Foods is a convenient source of grass-fed beef. I know they have organic / free range chicken but I don't know what it's fed. Trader Joe's has good stuff too.

Grass-fed beef tastes totally different. I can't see how caged animals would have the same muscle development that free-range animals do.

And that's another thing. If its true that grass-fed meat is demonstratably better, I'm willing to bet it's mostly because grass-fed cows are allowed to roam free, thus burning fat, getting some sun and fresh air, and preventing their muscles from atrophy. It isn't because grass is sooooooooooooo much healthier than corn.

[Rider]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

And that's another thing. If its true that grass-fed meat is demonstratably better, I'm willing to bet it's mostly because grass-fed cows are allowed to roam free, thus burning fat, getting some sun and fresh air, and preventing their muscles from atrophy. It isn't because grass is sooooooooooooo much healthier than corn.

Uh yeah because they can also use grass as a cheap sweetener...