Student quits high school choir over Islamic song

[Papa_Complex]

Kid has a right to quit. I don't see anyone getting butt hurt about the other religious songs, though, which they probably should be. Like Amblyopic said at the top of the thread, either ban it all or leave it alone. Personally, I'm in the 'ban it all' camp, when it comes to public education, but some of the greatest and most uplifting music, in history, was written for various religions.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

some of the greatest and most uplifting music, in history, was written for various religions.

I am kinda in the ban it all camp, but I don't see the point when it comes to art/literature. Yeah, praying and science it makes sense to be seperate... History, literature, and art; it's most of what is out there. We should learn about it, perform the great music/theater, read the great books, and so forth...

[EpyonXero]

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

It means the Muslim god. You don't hear "Elohim" and think maybe someone is talking about Buddhism.

If youre speaking Hebrew you might use elohim to refer to any god or gods, pagan or not. If youre speaking Arabic, 'Allah' means God with a capital G, the one god, and according to the Koran theres only one god and hes same god as the god of the Jews and Christians. In fact Arabic speaking jews and Christians call god 'Allah'.

[fatbuckRTO]

Originally Posted by EpyonXero

If youre speaking Hebrew you might use elohim to refer to any god or gods, pagan or not. If youre speaking Arabic, 'Allah' means God with a capital G, the one god, and according to the Koran theres only one god and hes same god as the god of the Jews and Christians. In fact Arabic speaking jews and Christians call god 'Allah'.

Yet somehow, when speaking English, Jews worship God, Christians worship Christ, and Muslims still worship Allah. I understand that Mohammed ripped off the Jews and the Christians, right down to claiming the angel Gabriel as his primary messenger. Doesn't mean they are the same gods. The Jewish god has yet to send a messiah, and pretty much only cares about ethnic Jews. The Christian god sent "himself" as a messiah 2000 years ago. The Muslim god has no need for messiahs, I guess Mohammed was blessing enough.

People like to say "they are the same God" or "Muslims worship the same God as 'we' do" as a means of defusing enmity among the three religions. But doing so ignores the reasons for that enmity. They are separate religions, separate stories with markedly different "endings," and separate gods.

That said, the song was in Urdu. It was a reference to the Muslim god. And I still don't care that James Harper wants to quit choir over it. Join a church choir if it means that much to you, Jimbo.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

Yet somehow, when speaking English, Jews worship God, Christians worship Christ, and Muslims still worship Allah. I understand that Mohammed ripped off the Jews and the Christians, right down to claiming the angel Gabriel as his primary messenger. Doesn't mean they are the same gods. The Jewish god has yet to send a messiah, and pretty much only cares about ethnic Jews. The Christian god sent a messiah 2000 years ago. The Muslim god has no need for messiahs, Mohammed was blessing enough.

People like to say "they are the same God" or "Muslims worship the same God as 'we' do" as a means of defusing enmity among the three religions. But doing so ignores the reasons for that enmity. They are separate religions, separate stories with markedly different "endings," and separate gods.

That said, the song was in Urdu. It was a reference to the Muslim god. And I still don't care that James Harper wants to quit choir over it. Join a church choir if it means that much to you, Jimbo.

Unfortunately for you, the story of this God all originates from the same place, therefore educational wise, it is the same God.
It would be like another religion using Zeus. Same entity, just confused about how the story progressed. It's not even a different timeline. Same timelines, some people just kept building onto the story.

I like how you said the Christians got ripped off by the Muslims, but you go on to make excuses for the Christians ripping off the Jews. LOLz, bias ftl.

[derf]

Originally Posted by Trip

Unfortunately for you, the story of this God all originates from the same place, therefore educational wise, it is the same God.
It would be like another religion using Zeus. Same entity, just confused about how the story progressed. It's not even a different timeline. Same timelines, some people just kept building onto the story.

I like how you said the Christians got ripped off by the Muslims, but you go on to make excuses for the Christians ripping off the Jews. LOLz, bias ftl.

I know where to put my money

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

Yet somehow, when speaking English, Jews worship God, Christians worship Christ, and Muslims still worship Allah. I understand that Mohammed ripped off the Jews and the Christians, right down to claiming the angel Gabriel as his primary messenger. Doesn't mean they are the same gods. The Jewish god has yet to send a messiah, and pretty much only cares about ethnic Jews. The Christian god sent "himself" as a messiah 2000 years ago. The Muslim god has no need for messiahs, I guess Mohammed was blessing enough.

People like to say "they are the same God" or "Muslims worship the same God as 'we' do" as a means of defusing enmity among the three religions. But doing so ignores the reasons for that enmity. They are separate religions, separate stories with markedly different "endings," and separate gods.

That said, the song was in Urdu. It was a reference to the Muslim god. And I still don't care that James Harper wants to quit choir over it. Join a church choir if it means that much to you, Jimbo.

Messiahs? No. Prophets? Yes.

Christians and Jews are referred to as "People of the Book." The Old Testament seems to be universal, to religions born in that area.

Originally Posted by derf

I know where to put my money

I see that some devout Norse god worshiper finally realized that the picture is of Thor, not Odin, and fixed the caption

[fatbuckRTO]

Originally Posted by Trip

Unfortunately for you, the story of this God all originates from the same place, therefore educational wise, it is the same God.
It would be like another religion using Zeus. Same entity, just confused about how the story progressed. It's not even a different timeline. Same timelines, some people just kept building onto the story.

I like how you said the Christians got ripped off by the Muslims, but you go on to make excuses for the Christians ripping off the Jews. LOLz, bias ftl.

You seem to think I have a vested interest in any of those three. I don't. I do think Mohammed ripped off his story from existing religions in the same way that I think Joseph Smith, a Christian, ripped off his story from existing religions. I don't know that there is a single person to whom you can track the "rip off" of the Jews that created Christianity; in my mind the very existence of a man named Jesus of Nazareth has been called into question. At any rate, the first Christians were Jews, so they kind of ripped themselves off. There are convincing arguments made that the Jews ripped off their religion from the Babylonians, but no one in this thread was making the claim that Adad and Yahweh are the same god.

They are not the same timelines. In the Jewish timeline, their god never came to earth as a mortal. In the Christian timeline he did, then he pretty much wanked off for the next two millenia. In the Muslim timeline, their god never came to earth as a mortal, but did reveal himself and his "new" intentions for mankind to a polygamist pedophile a little over a thousand years ago. Those three entities have completely different stories after the BC/AD changeover.

If there were two stories of Zeus, where one ended with him taking the form of a human and eating the ass out of a goat, and the other he stays on Olympus and eats pretzels, I would say those stories describe two different gods. Otherwise how do you define the entity itself?

When did I make excuses for Christians and their religion?

[Trip]

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

They are not the same timelines. In the Jewish timeline, their god never came to earth as a mortal. In the Christian timeline he did, then he pretty much wanked off for the next two millenia. In the Muslim timeline, their god never came to earth as a mortal, but did reveal himself and his "new" intentions for mankind to a polygamist pedophile a little over a thousand years ago. Those three entities have completely different stories after the BC/AD changeover.

The timeline is the same. There really is no new additions to the Jewish religion since before Jesus. Jesus built onto the story of the Jewish religion. Same with christianity and muslims. The christian story was pretty much settled when Mohammed made up his shit and used that timeline to make his. Pretty much all religions have borrowed shit from each other.

[fatbuckRTO]

You and I have different definitions of "same" and "different."


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Or, do we?