Learning to Ride (Track vs Street) - Page 2

shmike · 07-06-2010, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip

I agree with this, I had to learn a lot of skills probably a lot sooner than I should have been attempting to learn them just out of necessity.

Which in turn makes you a better rider.

If you survive.

smileyman · 07-06-2010, 11:51 AM

Bike control, bike control,. Bike control. Once you have it, an effective grasp of the maneuvers and technique in automatic muscle memory then all street issues are just a matter of situational awareness.

Track teaches effective movements better as you are presented with the complete range of manuevers several times per lap in a controlled environment that leaves you alone to concentrate 100 pct on technique.

Once you learn to operate at 100 pct, then 60 pct on the street or highway give you alot of spare attention for obstacles, traffic, ect.

tommymac · 07-06-2010, 11:52 AM

I think it does help street riding. Just learning a race line can help when dealing with corners a bit on the street. it also may help avoid potential problems like high or low sides from poor throttle control.

on the track you can push your bike further and see what some of the limits are so when you ride the street it can make you safer because you know how much you may have in reserve.

many of my friends became "track only" guys, where as, i am one of the few who realy enjoys both. I think for guy slike trip and many of you down south you guys have very good/technical roads in your backyard where as others dont so they wont get as much practice as you guys do.

azoomm · 07-06-2010, 11:54 AM

It is my belief that the majority of incidents are from the rider's reaction. If a rider understands what their motorcycle will do, or how to make their motorcycle perform, that reaction becomes more advanced - or, in many cases, learning to NOT react. Hearing a turtle, tar snake, squirrel, bumper, gravel made them crash - NOT reacting to many situations would make the rider better off. Repeated behavior and time with the motorcycle will make this more second nature, rather than it being a thought process. If you eliminate any possible outside distractions there is more focus on the performance rather than the reaction.

It isn't always about racing. It's usually about honing skills and learning how to make that motorcycle perform.

Nice thread

Trip · 07-06-2010, 11:57 AM

Ok, here is where I am going to go with this. Yes, romping down a country road, I have no issues, however when I get on the interstate and try to maintain decent road control can get iffy (not talking about blasting through traffic/lane splitting and such, just normal everyday legal riding.) I don't have a lot of experience in riding in cities and busy roads. Basic skills like lane position and observing rules of the road is not my strong suit at all. These are just not lessons you learn at the track or up in the mountains. This is where I think a lot of track riders would be deficient when they tried to make the switch.

tommymac · 07-06-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azoomm

It is my belief that the majority of incidents are from the rider's reaction. If a rider understands what their motorcycle will do, or how to make their motorcycle perform, that reaction becomes more advanced - or, in many cases, learning to NOT react. Hearing a turtle, tar snake, squirrel, bumper, gravel made them crash - NOT reacting to many situations would make the rider better off. Repeated behavior and time with the motorcycle will make this more second nature, rather than it being a thought process. If you eliminate any possible outside distractions there is more focus on the performance rather than the reaction.

It isn't always about racing. It's usually about honing skills and learning how to make that motorcycle perform.

Nice thread

Good points, esp when you can eliminate stuff like target fixation or chopping the throttle when the rear spins. I have had a few guys crash in front of me and I would always tell myself to look away and go where I want the bike to go. in th epast it would be more like wow look at that spectacular highside out in the grass followed by oh shit I am heading right for it now.

tommymac · 07-06-2010, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip

Ok, here is where I am going to go with this. Yes, romping down a country road, I have no issues, however when I get on the interstate and try to maintain decent road control can get iffy (not talking about blasting through traffic/lane splitting and such, just normal everyday legal riding.) I don't have a lot of experience in riding in cities and busy roads. Basic skills like lane position and observing rules of the road is not my strong suit at all. These are just not lessons you learn at the track or up in the mountains. This is where I think a lot of track riders would be deficient when they tried to make the switch.

Come ride around midtown manhattan for a while that wiill teach ya few things

Sean · 07-06-2010, 12:02 PM

Street riding and track riding are two different skill sets. I've known fast track riders that were slow on the street and fast street riders that were slow on the track.

Track riding can definitely increase your safety envelope on the street. It gives you a safe environment to improve your cornering ability. If your maximum speed through that corner is 50mph, at 45 you're at 90% of your ability--you've only got 10% left. Increase your maximum speed to 60 and you've now got a 25% margin to play with.

Trip · 07-06-2010, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Street riding and track riding are two different skill sets. I've known fast track riders that were slow on the street and fast street riders that were slow on the track.

Track riding can definitely increase your safety envelope on the street. It gives you a safe environment to improve your cornering ability. If your maximum speed through that corner is 50mph, at 45 you're at 90% of your ability--you've only got 10% left. Increase your maximum speed to 60 and you've now got a 25% margin to play with.

This is where I was trying to go, sorry for my lack of finding a good explaination. Thanks Sean, good post.

the chi · 07-06-2010, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip

Ok, here is where I am going to go with this. Yes, romping down a country road, I have no issues, however when I get on the interstate and try to maintain decent road control can get iffy (not talking about blasting through traffic/lane splitting and such, just normal everyday legal riding.) I don't have a lot of experience in riding in cities and busy roads. Basic skills like lane position and observing rules of the road is not my strong suit at all. These are just not lessons you learn at the track or up in the mountains. This is where I think a lot of track riders would be deficient when they tried to make the switch.

I dont think its about street versus track on these skills necessarily, but actually putting these skills to use to get the practice.

Basics like you mention are something taught in MSF and should be something you are aware of as a newbie and are not something you would learn at the track. An MSF booklet for your area would teach you the book learning, and getting out to some of the more metro areas would give you the practice you'd need.

07-06-2010, 11:51 AM	#12
smileyman White Trash Hero Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NW Arkansas Moto: Buell 1125R Porco Rosso Edition Posts: 4,895	Bike control, bike control,. Bike control. Once you have it, an effective grasp of the maneuvers and technique in automatic muscle memory then all street issues are just a matter of situational awareness. Track teaches effective movements better as you are presented with the complete range of manuevers several times per lap in a controlled environment that leaves you alone to concentrate 100 pct on technique. Once you learn to operate at 100 pct, then 60 pct on the street or highway give you alot of spare attention for obstacles, traffic, ect. __________________ Arkriders.com To be the best you must first be willing to risk the worst!

07-06-2010, 11:54 AM	#14
azoomm moderator chick Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hill Country TX Moto: Pasta Rockets Posts: 8,917	It is my belief that the majority of incidents are from the rider's reaction. If a rider understands what their motorcycle will do, or how to make their motorcycle perform, that reaction becomes more advanced - or, in many cases, learning to NOT react. Hearing a turtle, tar snake, squirrel, bumper, gravel made them crash - NOT reacting to many situations would make the rider better off. Repeated behavior and time with the motorcycle will make this more second nature, rather than it being a thought process. If you eliminate any possible outside distractions there is more focus on the performance rather than the reaction. It isn't always about racing. It's usually about honing skills and learning how to make that motorcycle perform. Nice thread __________________ We have enough youth. How about a fountain of "smart"? Come Play at the Track!! http://www.elitetrackdays.com

07-06-2010, 11:52 AM	#13
tommymac Moto GP Star Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,022	I think it does help street riding. Just learning a race line can help when dealing with corners a bit on the street. it also may help avoid potential problems like high or low sides from poor throttle control. on the track you can push your bike further and see what some of the limits are so when you ride the street it can make you safer because you know how much you may have in reserve. many of my friends became "track only" guys, where as, i am one of the few who realy enjoys both. I think for guy slike trip and many of you down south you guys have very good/technical roads in your backyard where as others dont so they wont get as much practice as you guys do.

07-06-2010, 11:57 AM	#15
Trip Hold mah beer! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: 80 Miles South of Moto Heaven Moto: 08 R1200GS Posts: 23,268	Ok, here is where I am going to go with this. Yes, romping down a country road, I have no issues, however when I get on the interstate and try to maintain decent road control can get iffy (not talking about blasting through traffic/lane splitting and such, just normal everyday legal riding.) I don't have a lot of experience in riding in cities and busy roads. Basic skills like lane position and observing rules of the road is not my strong suit at all. These are just not lessons you learn at the track or up in the mountains. This is where I think a lot of track riders would be deficient when they tried to make the switch.

07-06-2010, 12:02 PM	#18
Sean giggity Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: socal Moto: street, sumo & dirty Posts: 1,071	Street riding and track riding are two different skill sets. I've known fast track riders that were slow on the street and fast street riders that were slow on the track. Track riding can definitely increase your safety envelope on the street. It gives you a safe environment to improve your cornering ability. If your maximum speed through that corner is 50mph, at 45 you're at 90% of your ability--you've only got 10% left. Increase your maximum speed to 60 and you've now got a 25% margin to play with.