$447 bil - Page 23

shmike · 09-20-2011, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

Not exactly. On the surface, a simple straight percentage would seem the most reasonable. But that still leaves the CEO driving an Aston Martin from his 20 room mansion who only pays a percentage of $1 a year, since his compensation is in company stock options or his bank account is in the Cayman Islands, or some other such nonsense. And it still leaves the single woman working for $10 an hour for as many hours as she can get, then mowing lawns and pet sitting in her spare time, because she's taking care of her disabled parents who have no means of supporting themselves. I really wouldn't mind seeing her pay no taxes, or a lower percentage than the rest of us.

So my answer to Ed's question is: don't ask for a simple answer to a complicated problem.

Now, here's the reality:

That woman is paying very little if any taxes.

She is probably not filing taxes on her lawn mowing and pet sitting jobs, so she is just as much of a tax cheat as your CEO.

The CEO may only make $1 a year in salary but those stock options aren't free. Depending on what type of options they are, they may be taxed as income or they may be taxed later as capital gains.

Of course you may never be taxed on your options if they expire worthless.

Cayman account or not, if your CEO is being paid through a legitimate source, he is being taxed. If he/she is actually trying to export money from the US with no taxes being paid, I assure you that the IRS would be interested to hear about it.

Now, it may seem unfair that Susie is paying 15% on her $30k AGI while Mr. CEO is paying 15% on his $10 million, but please explain to me how his $1,500,000 is less than her $4500...)

Tmall · 09-20-2011, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

To answer this question, even though you clearly haven't put nearly enough hard work or determination into deserving an answer, let's look at the budget of just the DoD for this year (not including the wars).

$680 billion. In order for the approximately 313 million people in the US to pay this $680 billion tab, we would all have to contribute $2,172. Now, let's go get that money from a friend of mine,* who has been a roughneck most of his adult life, and started working when he was 15. He has paid into social security, paid his taxes, and worked in rain, sleet, snow, and blistering heat for sometimes 60 hours or more a week. Now he has epilepsy, which had been getting worse over a period of 10 years during which he was still roughnecking. He is finally to a point where his epilepsy is a safety hazard. The state of New Mexico has revoked his driver's license, but refused to pay him social security disability (which, remember, he has paid into all his working life, at this point a little over 15 years). He is forbidden from working as a roughneck by doctors' orders. He's providing for his family of five through the kindness of his extended family and his church.

You want to ask him for that $2,172?

For the thousands like him, and those who are even worse off, who picks up the slack? And that's just for the DoD's bills, not including the wars.

*Actual case file, I can introduce him to you if you'd like.

RacerX Answer

" He should have planned ahead and cured epilepsy! Look at my new gadget! Wheeee!!!!"

/RacerX Answer

fatbuckRTO · 09-20-2011, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmike

Now, it may seem unfair that Susie is paying 15% on her $30k AGI while Mr. CEO is paying 15% on his $10 million, but please explain to me how his $1,500,000 is less than her $4500...)

When it comes down to "choose between paying your taxes, eating, or paying your dad's medical bill," I'd say that $4500 is quite a bit more than $1.5 million.

Susie is a real case file too, by the way. And if she's not paying taxes on her lawn mowing job, I can't seem to bring myself to care. Even with the "extra income," she would be getting a full tax refund. Assuming it's just a refund, I'm ok with that.

shmike · 09-20-2011, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

When it comes down to "choose between paying your taxes, eating, or paying your dad's medical bill," I'd say that $4500 is quite a bit more than $1.5 million.

Susie is a real case file too, by the way. And if she's not paying taxes on her lawn mowing job, I can't seem to bring myself to care. Even with the "extra income," she would be getting a full tax refund. Assuming it's just a refund, I'm ok with that.

So, she is getting a full refund (a more likely scenario than my worst case)?

She paid no income taxes, so...

Is she still paying more than the CEO's $1.5 mil because she has a tough time making ends meet?

fatbuckRTO · 09-20-2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmike

So, she is getting a full refund (a more likely scenario than my worst case)?

She paid no income taxes, so...

Is she still paying more than the CEO's $1.5 mil because she has a tough time making ends meet?

Nope. And I'm fine with that. Were I a $10 million a year CEO, I would still be fine with that. When her paychecks start picking up, so can her taxes.

That said, just because the CEO is paying more doesn't mean that he "can't afford it as easily" as Susie. Susie can't "afford" shit. The CEO could still easily "afford" millions more. He just might have to downgrade to a Mercedes.

The above is not an attempt to answer the question of whether the CEO should pay more just because I would. But if he doesn't, where is the money going to come from? It ain't coming from Susie, or the epileptic ex-roughneck, no matter how hard you squeeze them.

shmike · 09-20-2011, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

Nope. And I'm fine with that. Were I a $10 million a year CEO, I would still be fine with that. When her paychecks start picking up, so can her taxes.

That said, just because the CEO is paying more doesn't mean that he "can't afford it as easily" as Susie. Susie can't "afford" shit. The CEO could still easily "afford" millions more. He just might have to downgrade to a Mercedes.

The above is not an attempt to answer the question of whether the CEO should pay more just because I would. But if he doesn't, where is the money going to come from? It ain't coming from Susie, or the epileptic ex-roughneck, no matter how hard you squeeze them.

He's not a $10 million a year CEO, he's a $1 a year CEO, remember?