$447 bil

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

It certainly was years ago, so they can't act like it's never been done before.

Either raise revenue, or cut spending. What kind of cuts is the GOP proposing, if any?

Seems like they are proposing cuts to everything. Not big on specificity though. Just cuts.

[shmike]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Undoubtedly, but if they're going to take as much as they do, then I'm more worried about it being used properly.

This is where we agree fully.

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

And you think that the "tax the rich" people are the only ones, who play upon emotion? What about the "leave the rich alone" people, who base their position on rhetoric and selfishness?

The rhetoric is what drives me crazy, regardless of which side you're on. And yes, it is on all sides. "The jobs killing xyz act" is a great example of that.

That is exactly why I made the last post that was directed at you.

If you can give me concrete examples or use factual information, I'd love to readdress the debate but since it was based on pure rhetoric, I chose to leave it alone.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by shmike

This is where we agree fully.

The rhetoric is what drives me crazy, regardless of which side you're on. And yes, it is on all sides. "The jobs killing xyz act" is a great example of that.

That is exactly why I made the last post that was directed at you.

If you can give me concrete examples or use factual information, I'd love to readdress the debate but since it was based on pure rhetoric, I chose to leave it alone.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=YtzF...page&q&f=false

[fatbuckRTO]

Originally Posted by shmike

If you can give me concrete examples or use factual information, I'd love to readdress the debate but since it was based on pure rhetoric, I chose to leave it alone.

From the article goof2 posted:

In 2009, 1,470 households filed tax returns with incomes above $1 million yet paid no federal income tax, according to the Internal Revenue Service. But that's less than 1 percent of the nearly 237,000 returns with incomes above $1 million.

I will grant you, that's a small number of millionaires. But they are clearing $1 million, so there was a loophole of some sort involved somewhere along the line. So what happens if, instead of taxing that 1470 people nothing, we tax them just 25% (assuming they only made $1 million)?

$1 million x 25% = $250,000
$250,000 x 1470 = $367,500,000

Beats Bachmann's "expand the tax base" plan, at least.

[shmike]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

http://books.google.ca/books?id=YtzF...page&q&f=false

Your Google is strong.

Since it's not 1994 anymore, Google: Heroes Act of 2008.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by shmike

Your Google is strong.

Since it's not 1994 anymore, Google: Heroes Act of 2008.

Which really doesn't do anything, for those who have already renounced their citizenship, and merely provides a 10 year taxation extension for those who do. Off they go, to live in The Bahamas. Many of these folks are playing the long game, not the 'let's save some tax THIS year' game.

http://www.taxmeless.com/USCitizenRenounce.htm

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by fasternyou929

Reading through this, I can't help but wonder how many of you do your own taxes? When you reach a new tax bracket your entire income isn't suddenly taxed at that rate. For example, should you make $390k this year, only $10k would be taxed at the 35% rate, not all $390k.

This has never been more obvious than when bonus payouts come around. "ZOMG, this is going to put me in a new tax bracket and cost me more money!!!" as if their bonus just netted them a loss.

I think another assumption people make is that the tax system is just about brackets. Another thing left out of the conversation is that the design of our tax system is not just about the government paying costs. It is designed to to help guide society. The tax system encourages individuals to make financial decisions deemed beneficial to society as a whole.

That's why person a who rents an apartment and spends all of the cash (whether earned through investment or paycheck) on toys or bull shit complains about tax brackets. Those who think long term and do things deemed good for both the individual and society as a whole pay significantly less. (but still complains about tax rates because lets face it, we are all selfish opportunists)
Purchase a home.
Have children.
Make long term investments.
Use money in ways that create income for others (aka:Job creators and all their "tax loopholes\deductions etc etc".


The case to be made is not whether the tax brackets or fair (because % are never really fair are they?), the real case to be made is whether the tax system should be promoting social change.

Should wealthier Americans pay higher tax rates (in their respective brackets) than the rest of us?
Silly question. Why do I say this?
Because folks who generate wealth and move into upper brackets tend to make different lifestyle choices and those choices have an impact on how they are taxed.
We have a complex tax system. Fucking around with the tax schedule has a big impact on those in the lower brackets. After a income level...it has a
less and less of an impact because the financial situation of those in the upper brackets is more complex.

Person A who make 60K a year - Its not fair that Person B pays a higher tax % than I do?
Person B - YEAH!!!! (secretly smirking because he paid a lower overall tax rate than person A)
Person C - Yeah!! (Pissed off because they paid exactly as the brackets stated


Summary - My elitist ass is tired of the average stupid tax bracket debate.

[RACER X]

besides 401k, what other long term investments will help lower my(our) tax rate?

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

From the article goof2 posted:



I will grant you, that's a small number of millionaires. But they are clearing $1 million, so there was a loophole of some sort involved somewhere along the line. So what happens if, instead of taxing that 1470 people nothing, we tax them just 25% (assuming they only made $1 million)?

$1 million x 25% = $250,000
$250,000 x 1470 = $367,500,000

Beats Bachmann's "expand the tax base" plan, at least.

Not to be a prick or anything but the statistic is kinda useless.

In 2009, 1,470 households filed tax returns with incomes above $1 million yet paid no federal income tax, according to the Internal Revenue Service. But that's less than 1 percent of the nearly 237,000 returns with incomes above $1 million.

1% paid 0.

The quote makes the silly assumption that 99% paid the full kaboodle.

For all I know
1% paid nothing
10 percent paid chump change
30% paid 5% total income
etc etc..

Wheres my fucking chart?
You cant post a quote like that without a spreadsheet or something..

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by RACER X

besides 401k, what other long term investments will help lower my(our) tax rate?

Do you have an accountant?
Who does your taxes?