Which scenario breeds the better rider?

[Smittie61984]

Originally Posted by 101lifts2

To me a better rider is the onr who knows to handle a motorcycle under all conditions the best.

That's what I believe too.

Personally I think if you can handle say a Harley which is heavy and not great at braking or handling and then you go to a more advanced and nimble sportbike they would fair better (once they get use to the bike). A sportbike rider who gets a cruiser may not recognize some dangers that a seasoned cruiser rider would (such as braking earlier).

But I think a lot is seat time in different conditions. I feel I'm a fairly decent rider being I ride rush hour interstate traffic, downtown Atlanta, twisties of the mountains, straights of south georgia, SUV dodging of the suburbs, dodging of deer in the out suburbs and country, all weather and just about any condition you could imagine for the street (including some offroad time on my bike). And I've done it without crashing (of course that could change today) despite many near misses and probalby 20k miles in 2 years of riding.

[Antwanny]

in general B but exceptions for everything. I personally think dirt riding first makes you bettuh than all of these.

[FT BSTRD]

There was actually a study on this. I'll see if I can find it.

The conclusions of the study were that it was more dangerous for riders to switch from a sportbike to a cruiser than to switch from a cruiser to a sportbike.

The reasoning was that the performance envelope of a sportbike is much broader than a cruiser. A cruiser rider has mentally locked in stopping distances, corner entry speeds, and traction variables for their particular bike. A sportbike's performance envelope exceeds these locked in variables.

A sportbike rider also has mentally locked in shorter stopping distances, higher corner entry speeds, and better traction variables compared to the performance envelope of a cruiser.

The end result is that a sportbike rider is more easily able to accidentally exceed the perforance envelope of a cruiser than a cruiser rider is able to accidentally exceed the perfornace envelope of a sport bike.

[tached1000rr]

Originally Posted by FT BSTRD

There was actually a study on this. I'll see if I can find it.

The conclusions of the study were that it was more dangerous for riders to switch from a sportbike to a cruiser than to switch from a cruiser to a sportbike.

The reasoning was that the performance envelope of a sportbike is much broader than a cruiser. A cruiser rider has mentally locked in stopping distances, corner entry speeds, and traction variables for their particular bike. A sportbike's performance envelope exceeds these locked in variables.

A sportbike rider also has mentally locked in shorter stopping distances, higher corner entry speeds, and better traction variables compared to the performance envelope of a cruiser.

The end result is that a sportbike rider is more easily able to accidentally exceed the perforance envelope of a cruiser than a cruiser rider is able to accidentally exceed the perfornace envelope of a sport bike.

Interesting and I can see their reasoning

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by FT BSTRD

There was actually a study on this. I'll see if I can find it.

The conclusions of the study were that it was more dangerous for riders to switch from a sportbike to a cruiser than to switch from a cruiser to a sportbike.

The reasoning was that the performance envelope of a sportbike is much broader than a cruiser. A cruiser rider has mentally locked in stopping distances, corner entry speeds, and traction variables for their particular bike. A sportbike's performance envelope exceeds these locked in variables.

A sportbike rider also has mentally locked in shorter stopping distances, higher corner entry speeds, and better traction variables compared to the performance envelope of a cruiser.

The end result is that a sportbike rider is more easily able to accidentally exceed the perforance envelope of a cruiser than a cruiser rider is able to accidentally exceed the perfornace envelope of a sport bike.

I agree with this 100%. Having been on sportbikes all my life, then taking friends cruisers for a ride you immediately see that the brakes suck, the thing drags hard parts at 20% lean angles and you cannot manuever all that well.

It is just easier to ride a lighter bike fast.

[OreoGaborio]

Depends on what you mean by "better"....

Safer?
or
More skilled?

If it's "safer" then I would probably say cruiser, then sportbike.
but
If it's "more skilled" then I would probably say sportbike, then cruiser.


But that would definitely be more of a TREND than anything else... definitely not the rule.

[FT BSTRD]

There were additional studies, all of this along the lines of safety, that took a closer look at accident rates for bikes.

The study looked at WHERE bikes are ridden vs. just how they are ridden and by whom.

Sport bikes tend to be ridden closer to urban areas where traffic is more dense.

Cruisers, particularly the most popular variant, touring bikes, tended to be ridden out of metropolitan areas where traffic is sparse.

Unfortunately, insurance companies and legislators lack any sort of common sense or imagination.

It's just easier to lable sport bikes as "unsafe" and cruisers as "safe" and legislate accordingly.


Strangely enough, rider skill plays very little into the thinking of what constitutes "safe".

I would much rather see a concentration on rider education.

[OreoGaborio]

Originally Posted by FT BSTRD

I would much rather see a concentration on rider education.

Uhg... you & me both!

I asked my insurance agent (knowing it was a long shot) if there were any discounts for licensed racers, track day instructors or MSF RiderCoaches & she looked at me like I was a cute little kid asking a cute little question, like "If all the food here is from China, is the water from China too?"

Awww, that's adorable... but no.

(yes... I asked my parents that when I was like 5 years old... they thought it was adorable and proceeded to tell almost every waiter at almost every Chinese restaurant we went to that story until I was practically 15.)

[FT BSTRD]

Originally Posted by OreoGaborio

Uhg... you & me both!

I asked my insurance agent (knowing it was a long shot) if there were any discounts for licensed racers, track day instructors or MSF RiderCoaches & she looked at me like I was a cute little kid asking a cute little question, like "If all the food here is from China, is the water from China too?"

(yes... I asked my parents that when I was like 5 years old... they thought it was adorable and proceeded to tell almost every waiter at almost every Chinese restaurant we went to that story until I was practically 15.)

You can't drive a fork lift without training, but somehow people fell like you can just buy a bike and you're good.

I recommend the MSF to ANYONE who will listen and nearly all people who won't.

My recommendation is not to embark on riding unless you plan to become a life long student of the art.

You can never know too much, and you can never know everything.

[OreoGaborio]

Amen! Preach on, Brutha Bastard!