First fa-22 fighters delivered to langley

[Adeptus_Minor]

Originally Posted by Dave

agreed, the black widow II was one of the sexiest planes ever to roll out of northrop. and unfortunately followed in their tradition of getting screwed on contracts. ol' jack never did make friends in washington

I was a fan of the original Black Widow, myself

[Phenix_Rider]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

Cheney, under Bush Sr killed the Tomcat(or to be more specific the Tomcat upgrade program) back in the 80's in favor of the SuperHornet. It took awhile for the Superhornet to come online and the F-14 to be phased out. The Superhornet is not a direct replacement of the F-14 because they have different mission profiles.
There has NEVER been any serious consideration for a navalized FA\22.

The FA18 will be replaced by the F-35.

The FA\22 will be replacing the F-15c(air superiority). The F-15E will live on.

In summary the FA\22 will replace the worn out c models of the F-15. It is unlikely that they will replace the F-15E. That bird will fly for many more years and be enhanced by armed RPV and drones.

It's likely mission for the next 25 years is to fly exercises and maybe a cap over an piece of dirt where lower end aircraft did all the dirty work.

By the time it actually sees use justifying the cost it will likely be against a superior aircraft flown by poorly trained pilots.

Enhanced/supplemented is right. It's funny how each new concept is sold as replacing so many other less expensive, but proven effective programs. The F-35/JSF is actually behind a few of the fighters listed technologically. It's nozzle only rotates down, where at least one of the Russian fighters have true thrust vectoring in any direction.

As for "poorly trained pilots," you never know. A lot of foreign nationals are here, in US colleges and flight schools. China, India, and Japan all have working space programs. If/When our shuttle fleet is decommissioned, one of them could take over the lead in space flight. Japan could easily kick ass in space and most other circles if they had the material resources and physical room. They certainly have the capital and brain power. The others would have to get their shit together first.

Originally Posted by pauldun170

It will only replace a % of the F-15 fleet...bout time considered the airframes on the C models have been worn out for years.

F-14 has already been replaced by the SuperHornet (kinda...) F-16 and F-117 are being replaced by the F-35 (and armed drones).

UCAVs aren't the be-all end-all either. If you want a worst-case, cheasy sci-fi take, watch Stealth. Jessica Beal

[Lamnidae]

Originally Posted by Dave

agreed, the black widow II was one of the sexiest planes ever to roll out of northrop. and unfortunately followed in their tradition of getting screwed on contracts. ol' jack never did make friends in washington

<~~~~ works for N.G.


Great company actually. They've got so many other successes too, like the Predators and my personal favorite, the Global Hawk. Their shipbuilding stuff is awesome too. They're doing the George H.W. Bush and the latest batch of Virginia Class attack subs.

[Lamnidae]

Originally Posted by Phenix_Rider

E.... The F-35/JSF is actually behind a few of the fighters listed technologically. It's nozzle only rotates down, where at least one of the Russian fighters have true thrust vectoring in any direction.

.... If/When our shuttle fleet is decommissioned, one of them could take over the lead in space flight. Japan could easily kick ass in space and most other circles if they had the material resources and physical room. They certainly have the capital and brain power. The others would have to get their shit together first.


UCAVs aren't the be-all end-all either. If you want a worst-case, cheasy sci-fi take, watch Stealth. Jessica Beal

IIRC the SU-47 and the Mig29OVT (I think redesignated MIG-35) were the only ones w/ pitch and yaw T/V... their not in full production yet either I think. I think it'd be interesting to see a Raptor up against one of those two.... I personally was a fan of the X-31.... that would have made a SWEEEEET light attack interceptor.


and when our shuttle fleet is decomissioned, they will take us over. It'll be a several year gap between the shuttle being mothballed and this new Ares bullshit (I'm calling bullshit, it's like we're taking a step back).



I agree, UCAV's aren't the end-all be all.... But they're definitely here to stay. Their ability to loiter over an area to provide watch/support is hard to match and much more economical than a dedicated satellite. Wish they would have continued w/ the X-45 Bird of Prey project.

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by Phenix_Rider

Enhanced/supplemented is right. It's funny how each new concept is sold as replacing so many other less expensive, but proven effective programs. The F-35/JSF is actually behind a few of the fighters listed technologically. It's nozzle only rotates down, where at least one of the Russian fighters have true thrust vectoring in any direction.

Huh?
the only F-35 model that has "thrust vectoring" is the B model, the vtol variant that the brits and Marines want. Thats only for takeoff and landing.
Standard F-35A and c do not have thrust vectoring.

I'm guess you are talking about the F22 when it comes to Vectoring.
Doesn't need it (3d as opposed to 2d), not worth the cost.

Certain Variants of the Mig29 and Su27 family have it.
Su27 with combat load ain't doing much of anything...vectored thrust or not.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Adeptus_Minor

I was a fan of the original Black Widow, myself

wierd looking sucker, but then again most of the early radar carriers were.

Originally Posted by Phenix_Rider

Enhanced/supplemented is right. It's funny how each new concept is sold as replacing so many other less expensive, but proven effective programs. The F-35/JSF is actually behind a few of the fighters listed technologically. It's nozzle only rotates down, where at least one of the Russian fighters have true thrust vectoring in any direction.

As for "poorly trained pilots," you never know. A lot of foreign nationals are here, in US colleges and flight schools. China, India, and Japan all have working space programs. If/When our shuttle fleet is decommissioned, one of them could take over the lead in space flight. Japan could easily kick ass in space and most other circles if they had the material resources and physical room. They certainly have the capital and brain power. The others would have to get their shit together first.


UCAVs aren't the be-all end-all either. If you want a worst-case, cheasy sci-fi take, watch Stealth. Jessica Beal

you are talking about the marine B varient. which does not have thrust vectoring except for vertical landings and take offs. actually a copy of the lift system designed by yakovlev and used on their 38 forger, and the 141 freestyle

Originally Posted by pauldun170

Huh?
the only F-35 model that has "thrust vectoring" is the B model, the vtol variant that the brits and Marines want. Thats only for takeoff and landing.
Standard F-35A and c do not have thrust vectoring.

I'm guess you are talking about the F22 when it comes to Vectoring.
Doesn't need it (3d as opposed to 2d), not worth the cost.

Certain Variants of the Mig29 and Su27 family have it.
Su27 with combat load ain't doing much of anything...vectored thrust or not.

22s have 2d. the big question is whether the 22s nozzles have all the capabilities of the F15 S/MTD. or more specifically are they capable of in flight thrust reversal.

[smileyman]

I'll take this with a side of Jessica Biel!
Leaves on your canopy and 30 mike mike up someones arse!
Semper Fi, Carry on!

[RACER X]

luv the A-10

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by smileyman

I'll take this with a side of Jessica Biel!
Leaves on your canopy and 30 mike mike up someones arse!
Semper Fi, Carry on!

One of the best purchases\values ever....

Always love it when some jerkoff talks of mothballin em and replacing them with (insert hot light fighter of the day)

[Dave]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

One of the best purchases\values ever....

Always love it when some jerkoff talks of mothballin em and replacing them with (insert hot light fighter of the day)

like the f35 def agree though. Hell i think we still ought to have coin aircraft. Some ov10s would have been extremely usefull in iraq compared to the never gonna get it f16 support