shits gonna hit the fan now

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by Trip

What the rest of us go through. Draw up a list of performance indicators based on all of the different areas that your job entails. A percentage will be tests of course, but it will be just that a percentage like it should be. Review the performance based on those areas. If you are a continuous underperformer, your ass gets the can.

It's rather difficult though, when the performance of someone else is what you'll be rated by.

Unfortunately it seems that our public education system is in a similar decline to yours. Back when I graduated high school, something like 6% of students made the honour role.

I recently heard a statistic that honours graduates were now up in the mid 50 percentile (can't remember the exact number). Trust me, when I say, that students definitely aren't 10x smarter than when I graduated. In fact I'm frequently dismayed at the complete lack of basic math and language skills, that I run into on a daily basis.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

It's rather difficult though, when the performance of someone else is what you'll be rated by.

Gee, I wonder what that would be like. Oh yeah, I know, kinda like how my performance is majority based on the maintenance crew that performs all the servicing work on my breakers.

Lots of people get reviewed based on the performance of others. Pretty much all management is done this way. Why should teachers get a free pass?

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by Trip

Gee, I wonder what that would be like. Oh yeah, I know, kinda like how my performance is majority based on the maintenance crew that performs all the servicing work on my breakers.

Lots of people get reviewed based on the performance of others. Pretty much all management is done this way. Why should teachers get a free pass?

Those guys could be fired, if they didn't do a sufficiently good job. Right? I don't think that the same can be said of a student.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Those guys could be fired, if they didn't do a sufficiently good job. Right? I don't think that the same can be said of a student.

Kids can get failed or sent to a remedial class.

I am not a fan of no child left behind. Some kids deserve to be left behind.

[Particle Man]

Originally Posted by Trip

Kids can get failed or sent to a remedial class.

I am not a fan of no child left behind. Some kids deserve to be left behind.

"But not MY kid!"

That goes back to pussification of society.

Heaven forbit Little Johnny actually fail and have to try again - can't have that, his FEELINGS might get hurt.

[Trip]

Oh, the crew has about as much of a chance of getting fired as teachers, hell probably even less of a chance. They are IBEW electricians. IBEW will fuck you up if you get in their way.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by Trip

Kids can get failed or sent to a remedial class.

I am not a fan of no child left behind. Some kids deserve to be left behind.

Right; so a kid who under-performs, who can effect the status of a teacher's employment, gets held back to do it all over again.

Yes, some children should be left behind. They could be doing the manual labour, that is being done by illegal labour. For some bizarre reason our societies seem to believe that even little Johnny, of the 95 IQ, should "have all the opportunities" of Adam, the kid who won multiple scholarships and has a 145 IQ. And if Johnny really is smart, but a lazy ass, then the same thing applies. Not everyone needs, or can manage, a higher education.

[Trip]

If you draw up the performance indicators correctly, the bad eggs won't doom teachers and get them fired. Your job performance will be based on more than just performance of the students. It will be based on material presented, review of what work you made the students do, the lessons you are teaching them, continuing training you have taken to improve your performance, and so forth. A real review of the job performance. The type of typical job review most workers get in professional fields.

Hell it will also give the lazy ass administrators something to do as well.

[fatbuckRTO]

Originally Posted by Trip

Kids can get failed or sent to a remedial class.

Not when your performance review is serverely adversely affected by the number of students who fail or get sent to a remedial class from your class. Or get bad grades.

If you got a bad review for giving your subordinates bad reviews, would you be so quick to be honest with your review system? Not every teacher has tenure. My mom doesn't, even after 30 years. I'd venture to say the vast majority of public school teachers don't, and will never.

I agree with you, an overhaul of teacher reviews is badly in order. But, for the current state of affairs in which 10th graders can't read or add, we have no one to blame but ourselves. As parents and voters. The actual teachers, for the most part, are just playing the shit hand we've dealt them.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

Not when your performance review is serverely adversely affected by the number of students who fail or get sent to a remedial class from your class. Or get bad grades.

If you got a bad review for giving your subordinates bad reviews, would you be so quick to be honest with your review system? Not every teacher has tenure. My mom doesn't, even after 30 years. I'd venture to say the vast majority of public school teachers don't, and will never.

I agree with you, an overhaul of teacher reviews is badly in order. But, for the current state of affairs in which 10th graders can't read or add, we have no one to blame but ourselves. As parents and voters. The actual teachers, for the most part, are just playing the shit hand we've dealt them.

Good point, to which I'll add the question, "How many parents actually help their kids with their homework, these days?"