shits gonna hit the fan now - Page 5

Trip · 03-14-2011, 10:53 AM

Then the teachers you are referring to, should actually be happy about what I am referring too. Their review gets better, they get to fail the asshats, and the shitty teachers that use to get tenure no longer get it.

goof2 · 03-14-2011, 10:54 AM

I'm no fan of No Child Left Behind, but as I understand it there aren't a whole lot of other options. The feds want to improve schools, but the only real power they have is writing checks. They have little ability to dictate how schools should operate. The result is the feds have mandated a few tests, about the limit of their non-fiscal power, and made receiving federal funds conditional on schools meeting some basic standards. It is an attempt to hold schools accountable within the limited framework the federal government has to work in.

I'm all for changing how schools operate. They should have performance evaluations for personnel based on more than the results of a test. They should get rid of "tenure", actual and effective (even schools without it make it damn near impossible to fire under-performing teachers), and allow schools to hold teachers and administrators accountable for their performance. The problem is that has to be done at the state and local levels, something I just don't see happening.

America currently spends a ton of money on education. While we don't spend the most per student at the elementary and secondary level it is pretty close and we are top five. I don't think money is the issue, but at the federal level that is about all that can be controlled.

Apoc · 03-17-2011, 09:27 PM

Yep. Those evil unions, how dare they expect fair compensation for their work. Just horrible, horrible people.

30k for what they do is a fucking pittance. Its ridiculous. Nobody teaching in the school system should be making less than 45k year. Fuck, on 30k, I wouldnt be able to fucking live. You union haters are fucking ridiculous, but im guessing its mostly jealousy.

USW Local 7085. Union Proud.

goof2 · 03-17-2011, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apoc

Yep. Those evil unions, how dare they expect fair compensation for their work. Just horrible, horrible people.

30k for what they do is a fucking pittance. Its ridiculous. Nobody teaching in the school system should be making less than 45k year. Fuck, on 30k, I wouldnt be able to fucking live. You union haters are fucking ridiculous, but im guessing its mostly jealousy.

USW Local 7085. Union Proud.

Your post doesn't make sense. If these people are making "a fucking pittance", then what would "union haters" have to be jealous about? Additionally, why would these union members be fighting so hard over an organization that negotiated them that "fucking pittance" of a salary in the first place? Some other things to consider, this bill only covers public unions (people employed by the government) and even after this bill those unions still have the power to negotiate salaries. The members can still be "Union Proud" as their unions continue to negotiate them their "fucking pittance".

fatbuckRTO · 03-18-2011, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apoc

USW Local 7085. Union Proud.

Can I assume, then, that if your union were required to have a vote every year to stay in existence, you and your fellow union members would have no problem showing up to vote yea? And that you and your fellow union members would have no problem keeping your union funded through voluntary dues?

Papa_Complex · 03-18-2011, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

Can I assume, then, that if your union were required to have a vote every year to stay in existence, you and your fellow union members would have no problem showing up to vote yea? And that you and your fellow union members would have no problem keeping your union funded through voluntary dues?

It would be fiscally irresponsible to have a scheduled vote for union continuance, every year. It forces the union to bear an unnecessary cost. Simply stating requirements for union decertification would be sufficient.

And that comes from a union member, who would prefer not to be one.

fatbuckRTO · 03-18-2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

It would be fiscally irresponsible to have a scheduled vote for union continuance, every year. It forces the union to bear an unnecessary cost. Simply stating requirements for union decertification would be sufficient.

And that comes from a union member, who would prefer not to be one.

That argument makes sense, but it is not the argument generally being presented. The argument generally being presented, especially by the protestors, looks more to me like ZOMG YOU'RE ATTACKING UNIONS AND WORKERS AND DRIVING US TO SLAVE WAGES AND FORNICATING WITH OUR UNDERAGE DAUGHTERS YOU FASCIST PEDOPHILE!!!

Out of curiosity, do you think a three, five, or ten year period between votes for continuance would be feasible?

Papa_Complex · 03-18-2011, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

That argument makes sense, but it is not the argument generally being presented. The argument generally being presented, especially by the protestors, looks more to me like ZOMG YOU'RE ATTACKING UNIONS AND WORKERS AND DRIVING US TO SLAVE WAGES AND FORNICATING WITH OUR UNDERAGE DAUGHTERS YOU FASCIST PEDOPHILE!!!

Out of curiosity, do you think a three, five, or ten year period between votes for continuance would be feasible?

I try to be reasonable, in my statements. It's one of the reasons why I'm not cut out for either government OR union work

If what I stated was done, then there would be no need for periodic votes, for the continuance of the union. An outside agency shouldn't be able to FORCE such a thing; it should be left to the members, in a given area/local.

pauldun170 · 03-18-2011, 09:16 AM

Here in the states you can demand rebates on dues for activities not related to collective bargaining.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bi...=431&invol=209

pauldun170 · 03-18-2011, 12:12 PM

Even our "union free" districts have unions

Knowing plenty of teachers, including some principals I'd have to say I'm neutral on the teachers unions. Their compensation is reasonable for the area.

The big thing that seems to have fucked us (locally) over in terms of quality of education and cost of education are lawyers and No child Left Behind. Thats followed by idiots who think our schools have to be tachno whizbang state of the art. SO much money pissed right down the toilet because some old fucktard thinks we need state of the art this and state of the art that...

03-17-2011, 09:27 PM	#3
Apoc For Science. You Monster. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Canada Moto: '08 HD FLSTSB Posts: 3,546	Yep. Those evil unions, how dare they expect fair compensation for their work. Just horrible, horrible people. 30k for what they do is a fucking pittance. Its ridiculous. Nobody teaching in the school system should be making less than 45k year. Fuck, on 30k, I wouldnt be able to fucking live. You union haters are fucking ridiculous, but im guessing its mostly jealousy. USW Local 7085. Union Proud. __________________ Android OS causes gay. Dont let your child use Android (unless she's a hot female). And dont let your babies grow up to be cowboys, either.

03-14-2011, 10:53 AM	#1
Trip Hold mah beer! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: 80 Miles South of Moto Heaven Moto: 08 R1200GS Posts: 23,268	Then the teachers you are referring to, should actually be happy about what I am referring too. Their review gets better, they get to fail the asshats, and the shitty teachers that use to get tenure no longer get it.

03-14-2011, 10:54 AM	#2
goof2 AMA Supersport Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4,756	I'm no fan of No Child Left Behind, but as I understand it there aren't a whole lot of other options. The feds want to improve schools, but the only real power they have is writing checks. They have little ability to dictate how schools should operate. The result is the feds have mandated a few tests, about the limit of their non-fiscal power, and made receiving federal funds conditional on schools meeting some basic standards. It is an attempt to hold schools accountable within the limited framework the federal government has to work in. I'm all for changing how schools operate. They should have performance evaluations for personnel based on more than the results of a test. They should get rid of "tenure", actual and effective (even schools without it make it damn near impossible to fire under-performing teachers), and allow schools to hold teachers and administrators accountable for their performance. The problem is that has to be done at the state and local levels, something I just don't see happening. America currently spends a ton of money on education. While we don't spend the most per student at the elementary and secondary level it is pretty close and we are top five. I don't think money is the issue, but at the federal level that is about all that can be controlled.