Trying to figure out what I want

[t-homo]

No matter what, I'm not going to go into debt for a car I don't enjoy and will want to get rid of within 6 months.

[Captain Morgan]

Originally Posted by Amber Lamps

I think that Ramsey needs to start a church.... Avery, not everyone is going to wreck their lives going into debt. I'm not telling the kid to buy a Porsche but if he ever plans on buying a house someday, unless you Ransey-ites don't allow credit for that anymore, he's going to have to build some credit. Buying a car is a good way to do that. You nor I know the EXACT situation he is in but the Mustang has some value for trade against the new vehicle and for all you know, he may already have some cash. Again, my 22 year old GF bought a $10,000 bike cash last year. It's amazing how much a "kid" working part time can save when Mom and Dad are paying the bills...

Anyway, here's an example of what I'm trying to say, $15,000 Murano - $4,500 trade for the Mustang - $2,500 cash = $8,000 loan with a $166/month payment @5% over 60 months. You could donate plasma to make that payment. I agree with you and the Reverend Ramsey for the most part with these two exceptions; 1. a house and 2. a vehicle. are the only reasons I'll take out a loan/go into debt ever again.

You're right, we don't know his exact situation. And like you said, it's amazing how much someone working part time can save while Mom and Dad are paying the bills. It's also amazing how much ANY person can save when they have zero debt.

What I'm trying to get through is that debt is a very bad habit to get into. There is zero REAL reason for him to finance a vehicle at this stage of the game. Come up with all the excuses you want, but he honestly does not NEED a new car, at least not to the point of financing one. If he truly NEEDS a different car due to the image that he thinks his current one portrays, then the mustang can be traded in, along with some cash, for a more reliable car that portrays a better, more stable image. He can then save a standard car payment for 10 months, then trade in the "stable-image" car in, along with the cash he saved, for a slightly better "stable-image" car. There is no need to finance a car.

And 60 months on a car loan? That Murano will be worth less than what he owes on it in about 2 years if he finances it for 5 years, which will then leave him upside down on it, should he decide he wants to "trade up" in 2 years, which is the standard for our society. And since it seems that image is so important here, it's highly likely he'll want to trade up for a better image in two years.

As for buying a home, yeah, Ramsey's idea allows for financing a house, under specific conditions. 1. Have a 20% down payment saved up. 2. Finance ONLY at 15 years with a fixed rate mortgage. 3. Make sure the payment at that 15 year rate is no more than 25% of your NET pay (I'll add that I feel it should even be mortgage payment, plus prop taxes, plus insurance should not total more than 25% of take home pay).

How will he "build credit" to get a loan for that house? By renting at the same place for at least two years and always paying his rent on time. While that's not reported on his credit report, it still shows stability and that he can make the payments. Also, because he'll have good financial habits with no debt, he'll also be investing while saving for the down payment of his home and will have additional assets to show the bank. Combine all of that with the above criteria plus a worthwhile bank that looks at the overall picture, not just a credit score, and he can get a loan for a home, without the need to go into debt on a car, or anything else.

Originally Posted by t-homo

No matter what, I'm not going to go into debt for a car I don't enjoy and will want to get rid of within 6 months.

Really wish that said:

Originally Posted by t-homo

No matter what, I'm not going to go into debt for a car, or anything other than a home that I can truly afford.

I know I'm fighting a losing battle, because the vast majority of people think there is nothing wrong with debt and everybody has all sorts of reasons why "reasonable" debt is a good thing. The problem is, the vast majority of people fall into bad habits with debt. Rather than saving up for what we want, and truly earning it before having it, we get caught up in the "I must have it now" philosophy and we come up with a multitude of ways to rationalize it. I know, I've been there, and I'm digging myself out of it.

I also have a degree in finance and I've been taught all the reasons why debt is a good thing. Problem is, I've never met a truly wealthy person that has all this debt. Everybody I know with debt wishes they didn't have that debt. They all wish they could get out from under it. They all wish they didn't have those payments, myself included.

I rationalized financing my motorcycle. After all, it was only 1.9% interest and I didn't have a car payment, so I could afford the payment. I fell into that "must have it now" trap. I thought I would be fine, then some unexpected things came about and I ran into some financial issues that caused me to realize I would have been much better off without the debt. And guess what? That payment is less than the amount Lon came up with for your payment, t-rock. Yet, I still wish I didn't have that payment.

Luckily, I was able to get things turned around and I'm working on paying off the debt early. I know you think I'm being too conservative, and I know you think I'm foolish and that you know better than me. I know you think "that won't happen to me," because I've been in your shoes. I said all of those things, too.

So with that, I'm done. This horse is sufficiently beaten well beyond death. Good luck, and I hope to hell you never have to say, "damn, I wish I'd listened to those old fogeys when they tried to give me advice." Because I sure as hell wish I'd listened to people my age and older back when I was your age.

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by t-homo

No matter what, I'm not going to go into debt for a car I don't enjoy and will want to get rid of within 6 months.

Truth.

Taurus = boring, even the new ones. Not sure why some people think they're great all of a sudden just because of the re-style.

Buick = boring as well..... nobody your age drives them, and nobody is going to be fooled into thinking it's a company car either.

Camry = OK but boring (sorry paul), and the Avalon is even worse, it's a grandmother's car and rides like a boat.

Malibu/Impalas are OK, but if you want a 4-door I would get either a G6, Mazda 6, or Altima. They fit your age alot better.

[t-homo]

If I were going to get a sedan it would be an altima for sure. Reason I am looking at the crossover cars is because I am tired of having a car I can't move or haul anything in. I have way too many times that I can't fit stuff in my car and have to borrow someones or take 6 trips or we have 4 people squashed into my car. We took my buddy's murano out to boston and back and got 23-24 mpg including all of the highways and then all around manhattan and boston. That's better than I get in the mustang with the same driving habits.

Again, this is still about 5-7 months out so I will have a pretty good idea by then of what I am going to be making and if I am going to succeed at it.

[Captain Morgan]

Originally Posted by t-homo

If I were going to get a sedan it would be an altima for sure. Reason I am looking at the crossover cars is because I am tired of having a car I can't move or haul anything in. I have way too many times that I can't fit stuff in my car and have to borrow someones or take 6 trips or we have 4 people squashed into my car. We took my buddy's murano out to boston and back and got 23-24 mpg including all of the highways and then all around manhattan and boston. That's better than I get in the mustang with the same driving habits.

Again, this is still about 5-7 months out so I will have a pretty good idea by then of what I am going to be making and if I am going to succeed at it.

Ok, so your heart is set on the Murano, all other advice be damned. At least do this:

1. Find out tomorrow what your payment would be on the Murano.
2. Find out what the cost of registration, road taxes, etc. will be on the Murano. Is it more than the Mustang?
3. Find out what the insurance cost will be on the Murano. Is it more than the Mustang?

Next, open a savings account (unless you already have one with little to no balance). Now, set aside the money you'll need for registration. For the next 5 to 7 months, make the monthly payment, combined with whatever extra you'll need for insurance over and above what you pay for the stang, directly into your savings account. Finally, do not remove this money, under ANY circumstances, from that savings account until you are ready to buy the Murano (or a different vehicle if you change your mind between now and then).

If you cheat on this process over the next 5 to 7 months, or you ever wish you didn't have to make that payment to yourself, then I highly advise you don't purchase that vehicle.

If you can't at LEAST do the above, then I wish you a lot of luck in your future.

[Amber Lamps]

Avery,
1. T-Rock doesn't require an "excuse" to buy a car... Some people on this forum don't believe people should EVER buy a new/nice car and jump up every time anyone even mentions it. I don't think that anyone needs to justify their buying habits to you or anyone else, the kid asked for CAR ADVICE, not fear mongering.

2. It really sucks that you are dishing out advice that you yourself didn't heed just a year or so ago. I mean, there is a huge difference between buying a car for work and buying a motorcycle. In fact, our friend here SOLD his motorcycle to better his financial picture...maybe you should take advice from him.

3. The absolute BEST investment advice someone in your personal position could give T-Rock would be to invest in a vacectomy/ condoms considering that a large reason that you can't afford things is the child you brought into this world out of wedlock.

4. T-Rock is single, childless and AFAIK still living with his parents so I think that he can afford a $200/month payment. I believe that he already has a father so...besides, his Dad seems to be very involved in his life and helps him make decisions. I doubt he'll let our boy get too far into trouble.

[t-homo]

heart set on the murano? You do realize I came into this with a few different vehicles I was looking at and completely open to others opinions. I have no wife and kids using up all of my money. I am one of two people I know still driving my first car after almost 6 years and frankly I'm tired of it.

Captain, I realize the dangers of debt, and that is why I don't plan on ever having a payment on a bike. Don't plan on going into debt for a toy. A new car however, I am willing to give up a little bit of my play money every month for.

[Hydrant]

I don't know if matters much, but check to see what the Murano takes as far as gas octane. Some friends have one and IIRC they have to put 93 in it according to the book. They have had the Murano for 4-5 years now and haven't had a problem with it, and probably has close to 80K on the odo.

[t-homo]

I'm pretty sure you are right about it calling for premium.

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

Truth.

Taurus = boring, even the new ones. Not sure why some people think they're great all of a sudden just because of the re-style.

Buick = boring as well..... nobody your age drives them, and nobody is going to be fooled into thinking it's a company car either.

Camry = OK but boring (sorry paul), and the Avalon is even worse, it's a grandmother's car and rides like a boat.

Malibu/Impalas are OK, but if you want a 4-door I would get either a G6, Mazda 6, or Altima. They fit your age alot better.

His original list
1. Nissan Murano - Boring with a lift kit
2. Lexux RX 330 - Boring with a lift kit
3. Cadillac SRX - Problematic boring with a lift kit
4. Mercedes ML 350 - Problematic boring with a lift kit
etc

Taurus - Conservative sedan with reasonable pricing in the used market and most importantly available with AWD. A very big plus with the Taurus is usable interior space. Lots of room inside front and rear for clients and co workers of all sizes. Big old trunk for lugging around paperwork and other necessities.

Buick - Conservative sedan with reasonable pricing in the used market and likely to be very well taken care of by previous owner. Big pluses are MPG, comfort, insurance and decent drivetrain.

Camry - Get a 4banger and it will be great on gas, cheap to own and insure. Late model SE models handle reasonably well.

Avalon - See Taurus. Additional pluses with Avalon are MPG and power (actually fairly quick cars)

Malibu/Impalas - Solid all rounders. Pricing not to bad on used car market.


Mazda6 - For his price range he is looking at the last gen model. Problematic and tight back seats.

G6 - No for too many reasons.

Altima - An ok choice but it depends on the area.