AIG Bailout

[Gas Man]

Some one else posted this on another board... thought it was good. However I have since heard that it was raised from 85B to 700B....


Subject: AIG Bailout

Hey guy's, and gals.............Don't know how everyone else feels about this BUT.................

I'm against the $85,000,000,000 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in
a ''We Deserve It Dividend''.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000
bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman
and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a
'We Deserve It Dividend'.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.
Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.

What would you do with $297,500 to $595,000 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks
who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company
that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed
Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of
trickling out a puny $1000.00 ('vote buy') economic incentive that is
being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult
U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.
Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can 'never work.' OR could it???

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I do trust that my fellow adult Americans would know how to use the $85 Billion
'We Deserve It Dividend' more than the geniuses at AIG or in
Washington DC.

And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because
$25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

Kindest personal regards,

A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic.

[smileyman]

Ah finally some common sense advice...I have been preaching about this redistribution of wealth for quite some time. You see it happens naturally in our hirstory, revolutionary war took it from the British and redistributed it. Some time later the Civil War shook it up again, then you have the industrial revolution, the crash of 29 and the great depression, then WW2. All allowing the money that had been sucked to teh top of the financial food chain to wander back into the hands of the consumer who of course sent it right back.

Now here we are, the only difference is we are so long overdue for the natural cycle of things that the consumer is actually spent far more than they actually have thanks to the emergence of debt instruments and credit back in the late 60's/early 70's. What has been transferred to the halls of corporate America for distribution to the shareholders has been a bunch of blue sky, not actual wealth. So when these companies fall out, and they are going to keep falling out, there is no redistribution of actual wealth. AIG doesn't have anything real to sell off and the government really doesn't have anything they can use to help bail anyone out as they are operating on a huge deficeit dependant on future taxes to settle the score, taxes from you and me brother!

Not sure where that brings us to but it will take some time for the tides to turn. Gonna be a bumpy decade!

[OneSickPsycho]

Originally Posted by smileyman

Ah finally some common sense advice...I have been preaching about this redistribution of wealth for quite some time. You see it happens naturally in our hirstory, revolutionary war took it from the British and redistributed it. Some time later the Civil War shook it up again, then you have the industrial revolution, the crash of 29 and the great depression, then WW2. All allowing the money that had been sucked to teh top of the financial food chain to wander back into the hands of the consumer who of course sent it right back.

Now here we are, the only difference is we are so long overdue for the natural cycle of things that the consumer is actually spent far more than they actually have thanks to the emergence of debt instruments and credit back in the late 60's/early 70's. What has been transferred to the halls of corporate America for distribution to the shareholders has been a bunch of blue sky, not actual wealth. So when these companies fall out, and they are going to keep falling out, there is no redistribution of actual wealth. AIG doesn't have anything real to sell off and the government really doesn't have anything they can use to help bail anyone out as they are operating on a huge deficeit dependant on future taxes to settle the score, taxes from you and me brother!

Not sure where that brings us to but it will take some time for the tides to turn. Gonna be a bumpy decade!

Wealth redistribution screams of communism and socialism... Fuck that. Last figure I saw, AIG had nearly a trillion dollars in assets... Not 100% on the source though, so it could be bunk.

[smileyman]

No they do have trillions in assets, but it aint real assets. It is investments purchased. Investments stemming from big million and billion dollar blocks of sub prime mortgages, small business capitol loans and other bedt vehicles that suddenly in a struggling economy, with house prices falling, mortgage defaults on the rise, jobs being lost daily are worth only 20 cents on the dollar.

Same goes for Wamu with its portfolio of unsecured credit card debt, 2nd mortgages on no real equity, unsecured business lines of credit.

If these companies hadn't had these investments devalued they would not be in trouble.

[Captain Morgan]

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho

Wealth redistribution screams of communism and socialism... Fuck that. Last figure I saw, AIG had nearly a trillion dollars in assets... Not 100% on the source though, so it could be bunk.

Yep. And redristribution of wealth would only last so long anyway. The poor are poor for a reason. There are VERY few who are poor due to unfortunate circumstance, most are poor due to laziness. The rich are rich for a reason. Sure, there are the few that are only rich because of their parents, but most are rich due to their knowledge and work ethic. Then there is the middle class. We don't necessarily seek out the mega-millions and do the amount of work that we need to to get by. We work for our money and buy the things we want as soon as possible, typically using (bad) debt to get it. The rich invest their money in ways to make it work for them, then they buy the things they want. There will always be rich and there will always be poor...

The plan in the original post wouldn't do much to help the American consumer because most would simply blow that money on shit they don't need, which is what got us into this mess in the first place. We rely too heavily on debt to buy things that are "luxury" items. Rather than paying off debt, like the original post suggests, most people would either:

A. maintain their debt and buy bigger and better things that they don't need

B. pay off their debt, then continue with the same bad spending habits and end up in the same place within a year or less.

There would be some, like myself, who would first pay off debt, then buy a modest home (if they don't already have a home), and finally, invest the remainder for retirement. Yes, we would probably buy an item or two that we'd been wanting for a long time but couldn't really afford, but we wouldn't go overboard with the spending.

Originally Posted by smileyman

No they do have trillions in assets, but it aint real assets. It is investments purchased. Investments stemming from big million and billion dollar blocks of sub prime mortgages, small business capitol loans and other bedt vehicles that suddenly in a struggling economy, with house prices falling, mortgage defaults on the rise, jobs being lost daily are worth only 20 cents on the dollar.

Same goes for Wamu with its portfolio of unsecured credit card debt, 2nd mortgages on no real equity, unsecured business lines of credit.

If these companies hadn't had these investments devalued they would not be in trouble.

Well, the investments were devalued because they were bad investments to begin with. They were purchased because of the outrageous interest rates and payments to the holder. This is an area where the rich fucked up. They simply saw $$ and didn't pay attention to what they were really getting into. Or, they knew what they were getting into and thought it would last longer than it did. The really smart ones knew exactly what they were getting into and sold off the investments before they crashed because they could see it coming when interest rates started to rise. However, most of the bad debt remained at banks...don't get me started on that one.

Society is to blame for being so materialistic and wanting everything right now, rather than working for it and earning it. Banks are to blame for letting people borrow as much as they could possibly borrow, many times, more than they could realistically repay. I'm not going to climb up on that soapbox again.

[smileyman]

Originally Posted by Captain Morgan

Yep. And redristribution of wealth would only last so long anyway. The poor are poor for a reason. There are VERY few who are poor due to unfortunate circumstance, most are poor due to laziness. The rich are rich for a reason. Sure, there are the few that are only rich because of their parents, but most are rich due to their knowledge and work ethic. Then there is the middle class. We don't necessarily seek out the mega-millions and do the amount of work that we need to to get by. We work for our money and buy the things we want as soon as possible, typically using (bad) debt to get it. The rich invest their money in ways to make it work for them, then they buy the things they want. There will always be rich and there will always be poor...
.

First off I don't believe any government should be in charge of redistributing the wealth. I was simply pointing out that it happens in natural ways.
second our government is too bankrupt to do it.
Third it would be our own wealth paid to the govt. and yes that would be socialist.
Finally your right in believing any redistribution will end up back in the hands it started from. That is the cycle. That is where the "economy" gets its strength from. Not in the holding or managing of wealth, but in the turnover of wealth. Its the old suction Vs Air flow analogy. It is the circulation that makes it powerful, much more so than just a one way pull...

However I don't buy into that poor are poor for a reason. I don't beleive it is just a small portion of those in poverty that just didn't get opportunities, I feel like there is a large portion of the poor and somewhat middle class that is missing the opportunity boat and not having a chance for success.

By that same token I know alot of wealthy folks that not only do nothing worthy or contribute in any way to their being wealthy and alot of them that try every way to squander and waste the wealth they lucked into and just can't sqaunder enough to get poor again.

[Mr Lefty]

fuck that... who says we deserve it? that's one thing that KILLS me about the US today... the sense of entitle ment to everything... FUCK YOU EARN WHAT YOU THINK YOU DESERVE!

But can you imagine what the hell would happen to our country if everyone got just under 500k?! ok... 200k with taxes?! it'd be mass hysteria... morons thinking they won the lottery and wouldn't have to work... causing businesses to close because they have no workers... the criminal element would go crazy knowing people had money...

fuck that... how about people earn what they deserve... give it to us in the form of a tax break if anything... or apply it to the fucking debt our nation is accruing... granted it won't make much of a dent.. but hell... it's a positive step... no?

[smileyman]

$500,000 windfall would be 41.67 years of income for someone on the poverty level. You bet they would think they could retire...It would only take me another 10-12 years before I would have to go back to work... Of course I earn less than I deserve, but more than I actually earn...

[Mr Lefty]

ehh I could USE more money... and yeah for the stress and bs I probably deserve more... but I'm not hurting for money... it comes down to living with in your means... (not talk'n about you smilie) the average American feels they DESERVE more money because they want or DESERVE that 50k car or 500k house that the next person has...

fuck that... EARN IT.

[Bassplayer]

YEA! lets bailout the greedy people that hold billions of dollars and blow it...
give the people that least deserve it/need 700billion dollars of TAX PAYER money. That way the rich STAY rich and the poor/middle class pay them for just being so doggone awesome. (sarcasm throughout)

ya know how they got that number? RANDOM! Im serious! they seriously said, wat number sounds right? hmmm how about 700billion dollars? SURE!
Oh and by the way now that these major corporations will be owned by the government, it gives the govt even more power! Niiiice... does somebody smell traces of socialism?

People need to be held accountable.