25 years of sportbike development

derf · 08-21-2009, 01:16 AM

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/20...5-years-o.html

Take a look at this interactive graph. It starts in the 80s and shows power to weight through time. Its pretty cool. Botice that it is a pretty steady drop in weight and gain in power until 2005 when the emission standards changed, but even that blip in the other direction was overcome within a few short years

smileyman · 08-21-2009, 10:23 AM

Great find. Yeah every 2-3 years they get two to five percent better, but those are just power to weight numbers, braking, handling, durability, all getting better and better!!!

z06boy · 08-21-2009, 10:27 AM

Crap...blocked at work.

My very first streetbike was a 1988 Ninja 600R...boy I thought that bike was something.

Dave · 08-21-2009, 10:32 AM

mine was an 87 hurricane 600 kindof an eye opener when the 954 was lighter and far more powerful

z06boy · 08-21-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

mine was an 87 hurricane 600 kindof an eye opener when the 954 was lighter and far more powerful

My friend bought the Hurricane when I bought the Ninja. I have owned two Honda's...94 F2 and 95 F3.

smileyman · 08-21-2009, 10:48 AM

My first racebike was a bonestock 95 F3. Great bike, did lots of sprints and endurance races on em'

Amber Lamps · 08-21-2009, 12:47 PM

Yea my first "racey" bike was an '83 RZ350 I bought with my enlistment bonus but my first actual sport bike was also a '86 Ninja 600. My best friend let me keep it while he was deployed overseas for 18 months. I then rode a '86 Ninja 1000 for a while but got over it and bought an '88 V-Max. I didn't come back until '95 with the FZR1000. It funny to me how we've almost gone full circle in the power to weight arena. I think that it's possible to make a bike with more hp and less weight but I also believe that it would be almost impossible to ride on the street. Witness the turbo attempts by the OEMs and even the first V-Max which was considered a "Death Machine" so Yamaha scaled it back.

I honestly believe that say, Suzuki could market a full spec, 200+ hp WSBK bike for under $20,000 if they wanted to. The only thing that keeps race parts expensive is their limited production. Today's radial brakes, inverted forks, titanium valves, gas charged shock, etc were yesterday's "unobtanium" race parts.

smileyman · 08-21-2009, 01:19 PM

Tigger you forgot one thing, hi HP machines in a much higher state of tune require rigorous maintenance or they explode. The OEMs have more than doubled the service intervals for these newer better performing machines and that would definitely decrease if they go to the edge of durability to get the big HP numbers...

Amber Lamps · 08-21-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smileyman

Tigger you forgot one thing, hi HP machines in a much higher state of tune require rigorous maintenance or they explode. The OEMs have more than doubled the service intervals for these newer better performing machines and that would definitely decrease if they go to the edge of durability to get the big HP numbers...

Hmmm... you're the last guy I want to debate this type of argument with BUT....

Considering the types of engine mods that are done now, I don't believe that it is quite as big of a concern as before. Swapping the cams, reprogramming the FI, porting/polishing the head, lightening the crank doesn't make the engine quite as unreliable as the old mods did. Shit, back in the day, race teams expected to go through 2 or 3 engines a race weekend. Now engine failures are a rarity and DNFs are more likely to be caused by electrical gremlins rather than blown motors. Heck, there used to be blown motors every race, now it's only once in a while and usually involves a privateer/backmarker. I'm not sure that even the top teams rebuild their engines after EVERY race anymore.

Besides, a street bike would never see the kinds of stresses a race bike does.

smileyman · 08-21-2009, 03:03 PM

You are correct Tigger street bikes seldom see the kind of abuse a race engine does and the OEMs have improved tolerances and metallurgy along with far better engine management to allow the 170 and 180 hp levels that are commmon in the liter bike class. However I dont know how much further they can push the powerlevel as titanium engine internals and valve acruation go thru such hi stress. Valve springs and retainers only take so much use even at a low stress street use and the we already have slipper thin pistons, hollow cams, , factory knife edged cranks and polishing...I feel if they do continue on that wew ill see a drop in reliability or at least higher maintenance requirements?!

08-21-2009, 01:16 AM	#1
derf token jewboy Join Date: Nov 2008 Moto: CBR 900, KLR ugly ass duckling, Gas Man Posts: 10,799	25 years of sportbike development http://hellforleathermagazine.com/20...5-years-o.html Take a look at this interactive graph. It starts in the 80s and shows power to weight through time. Its pretty cool. Botice that it is a pretty steady drop in weight and gain in power until 2005 when the emission standards changed, but even that blip in the other direction was overcome within a few short years __________________

08-21-2009, 10:23 AM	#2
smileyman White Trash Hero Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NW Arkansas Moto: Buell 1125R Porco Rosso Edition Posts: 4,895	Great find. Yeah every 2-3 years they get two to five percent better, but those are just power to weight numbers, braking, handling, durability, all getting better and better!!! __________________ Arkriders.com To be the best you must first be willing to risk the worst!

08-21-2009, 10:32 AM	#4
Dave Chaotic Neutral Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cherry Hill NJ Moto: GV1200 Madura, Hawk gt Posts: 13,992	mine was an 87 hurricane 600 kindof an eye opener when the 954 was lighter and far more powerful __________________ TWF Post whore #6

08-21-2009, 10:48 AM	#6
smileyman White Trash Hero Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NW Arkansas Moto: Buell 1125R Porco Rosso Edition Posts: 4,895	My first racebike was a bonestock 95 F3. Great bike, did lots of sprints and endurance races on em' __________________ Arkriders.com To be the best you must first be willing to risk the worst!

08-21-2009, 01:19 PM	#8
smileyman White Trash Hero Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NW Arkansas Moto: Buell 1125R Porco Rosso Edition Posts: 4,895	Tigger you forgot one thing, hi HP machines in a much higher state of tune require rigorous maintenance or they explode. The OEMs have more than doubled the service intervals for these newer better performing machines and that would definitely decrease if they go to the edge of durability to get the big HP numbers... __________________ Arkriders.com To be the best you must first be willing to risk the worst!

08-21-2009, 10:27 AM	#3
z06boy Letzroll Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Lake Norman area, NC Moto: 07 Red R1 & 07 Blue R6 Posts: 5,265	Crap...blocked at work. My very first streetbike was a 1988 Ninja 600R...boy I thought that bike was something.

08-21-2009, 12:47 PM	#7
Amber Lamps Moto GP Star Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 14,556	Yea my first "racey" bike was an '83 RZ350 I bought with my enlistment bonus but my first actual sport bike was also a '86 Ninja 600. My best friend let me keep it while he was deployed overseas for 18 months. I then rode a '86 Ninja 1000 for a while but got over it and bought an '88 V-Max. I didn't come back until '95 with the FZR1000. It funny to me how we've almost gone full circle in the power to weight arena. I think that it's possible to make a bike with more hp and less weight but I also believe that it would be almost impossible to ride on the street. Witness the turbo attempts by the OEMs and even the first V-Max which was considered a "Death Machine" so Yamaha scaled it back. I honestly believe that say, Suzuki could market a full spec, 200+ hp WSBK bike for under $20,000 if they wanted to. The only thing that keeps race parts expensive is their limited production. Today's radial brakes, inverted forks, titanium valves, gas charged shock, etc were yesterday's "unobtanium" race parts.

08-21-2009, 03:03 PM	#10
smileyman White Trash Hero Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NW Arkansas Moto: Buell 1125R Porco Rosso Edition Posts: 4,895	You are correct Tigger street bikes seldom see the kind of abuse a race engine does and the OEMs have improved tolerances and metallurgy along with far better engine management to allow the 170 and 180 hp levels that are commmon in the liter bike class. However I dont know how much further they can push the powerlevel as titanium engine internals and valve acruation go thru such hi stress. Valve springs and retainers only take so much use even at a low stress street use and the we already have slipper thin pistons, hollow cams, , factory knife edged cranks and polishing...I feel if they do continue on that wew ill see a drop in reliability or at least higher maintenance requirements?! __________________ Arkriders.com To be the best you must first be willing to risk the worst!