Military fatalities...

smileyman · 10-31-2008, 10:36 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/30/mar...les/index.html

Marine motorcycle deaths top their Iraq combat fatalitiesStory Highlights
25 Marines killed on motorcycles in past 12 months, compared with 20 killed in Iraq

Top Marine official: "The Marines are very serious about" addressing problem

All but one of the deaths have involved super-fast sport bikes

Marines have recently implemented a mandatory sport-bike course

Next Article in U.S. »

Read VIDEO
From Larry Shaughnessy
CNN Pentagon Producer

QUANTICO, Virginia (CNN) -- Motorcycle accidents have killed more Marines in the past 12 months than enemy fire in Iraq, a rate that's so alarming it has prompted top brass to call a meeting to address the issue, officials say.

Despite crashes, Gunnery Sgt. Art Tucker rides a sport motorcycle. "I enjoy it. ... It relaxes me," he says.

Twenty-five Marines have died in motorcycle crashes since last November -- all but one of them involving sport bikes that can reach speeds of well over 100 mph, according to Marine officials. In that same period, 20 Marines have been killed in action in Iraq.

The 25 deaths are the highest motorcycle death toll ever for the Marine Corps.

Gen. James Amos, the assistant commandant of the Marine Corps, told CNN that commanders are trying to drill down on what "we need to do to help our Marines survive on these sport bikes."

"The Marines are very serious about it," he said. Watch these aren't your father's Harleys »

Marine Gunnery Sgt. Art Tucker knows all too well about the dangers of sport bikes. An owner of a Kawasaki Ninja, Tucker has had two crashes, and the second one nearly killed him.

"I sustained a broken collar bone, I tore the shoulder out of the socket, I tore three ligaments in the shoulder, the rotator cuff, I broke three vertebrae," said Tucker, a drill instructor for new officers.

"The worst was a head injury I received: a bruised brain. And it caused hemorrhaging, and from that I had partial paralysis of the left leg, full paralysis of the left foot and toes, and that was for approximately six months."

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Amos said he and other top Marine officials will spend half the day Monday "focusing on nothing but motorcycle issues." The commandant of the Marine Corps, Gen. James Conway, and other senior leadership will attend the meeting at the Quantico, Virginia, Marine base, he said.

About 18,000 of the nearly 200,000 Marines are believed to own motorcycles, Amos said.

The Marines have taken some measures. The Marine Corps has had a long-standing policy for all Marines who ride motorcycles to take a mandatory basic riding course. More recently, it added a second training course specifically designed to train Marines who ride sport bikes.

Any Marine caught riding, even on leave, without going through the training courses faces Marine Corps punishment, officials say.

On a recent day at the Quantico training track, Marines whizzed by on their bikes.

"I think the basic rider course has been great," said Cpl. Austin Oakley. "Here, they put you in situations you want to be weary of out in that open road."

Oakley said he recently returned to the United States from Japan, and he immediately jumped at the chance to buy a sport bike. He said it's not uncommon for Marines to have motorcycle clubs within their units.

"We'll go out on rides together. Fridays for lunchtime, we'll all meet up and go to lunch," Oakley said. "When I get on my motorcycle, it's me and the motorcycle. I don't need to go fast. I don't need to do anything like that. It's just being free."

The rise in motorcycle deaths isn't confined to Marines. The Navy says it's had 33 deaths on motorcycles over the past 12 months -- a 65 percent jump from the previous time period. And authorities say motorcycle deaths have been a problem in the civilian world, too.

Military officials say they're not sure why the deaths are on the rise. They initially believed the accidents might involve mostly young Marines and sailors around 18 or 19 years old. But Navy statistics show that five of the victims were 25, the most prevalent of any age involved in the crashes. And two 40-year-old sailors were killed in motorcycle crashes.

Gen. Amos said the Marines have seen a similar trend.

But he says the new training seems to be working: Of the 300 young men and women who have gone through the sport-bike course, only three have had accidents.

The safety course instructors said some Marines who go through the training decide the sport bike is not for them.

But even some Marines who've survived past crashes still want to ride again, even after they get the new training.

"I enjoy it," said Tucker. "I can actually get on my motorcycle and ride, and it's just like if I were to do bowling or rock climbing or scuba diving. It's something for me. It relaxes me."

PhiSig1071 · 10-31-2008, 10:49 AM

I am a JSMSP certified, and I coach the MSF course on base at NAS Jax on occasion. They've started implementing the sportbike course there. It's tough, and not everybody who tries will pass it. I think it's a good thing.

Rider · 10-31-2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

I am a JSMSP certified, and I coach the MSF course on base at NAS Jax on occasion. They've started implementing the sportbike course there. It's tough, and not everybody who tries will pass it. I think it's a good thing.

It might help if they bring that tougher sport bike specific training to the civilian world.

Wouldn't hurt that's for sure.

PhiSig1071 · 10-31-2008, 11:03 AM

I completely agree, unfortunately we don't have the infrastructure in place to enforce than kind of mandate in the "civilian" world.

Captain Morgan · 10-31-2008, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rider

It might help if they bring that tougher sport bike specific training to the civilian world.

Wouldn't hurt that's for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

I completely agree, unfortunately we don't have the infrastructure in place to enforce than kind of mandate in the "civilian" world.

That and motorcycle awareness for all the cagers...

PiZdETS · 10-31-2008, 11:51 AM

HOLY SHIT OVER 100 MPH!!!!!!

Srsly though, MSF beginner course to start out, then the advanced course when you want to get over a 750 for EVERYONE.

smileyman · 10-31-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

I completely agree, unfortunately we don't have the infrastructure in place to enforce than kind of mandate in the "civilian" world.

IF you had a insightful government regulating the insurance companies you could possibly enlist THEIR assets in offering / providing rider training. IF you had enough of a break on the $2400-$4800 per year premiums you would get the consumers support...IF.

As it is no, not enough deaths, not enough $$ lost by insurers...

t-homo · 10-31-2008, 12:09 PM

I just saw this and was getting ready to post it. Its sad really. 25 in the Marines and 33 in the navy, just in the last year.

PhiSig1071 · 10-31-2008, 12:16 PM

Yeah, we should definitely have a gradiated license system for motorcyclists. We have some of the toughest laws governing the operation of a motorcycle (ie speeding tickets) yet we still havemore fatalities than any European country. IMO that's because of greater awareness because of more prevalance and the licensing systems they have there.

Captain Morgan · 10-31-2008, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smileyman

IF you had a insightful government regulating the insurance companies you could possibly enlist THEIR assets in offering / providing rider training. IF you had enough of a break on the $2400-$4800 per year premiums you would get the consumers support...IF.

As it is no, not enough deaths, not enough $$ lost by insurers...

The insurers will never lose "enough" because they'll just keep raising rates. They should take action to try and educate, but they don't really care.

10-31-2008, 10:36 AM	#1
smileyman White Trash Hero Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NW Arkansas Moto: Buell 1125R Porco Rosso Edition Posts: 4,895	Military fatalities... http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/30/mar...les/index.html Marine motorcycle deaths top their Iraq combat fatalitiesStory Highlights 25 Marines killed on motorcycles in past 12 months, compared with 20 killed in Iraq Top Marine official: "The Marines are very serious about" addressing problem All but one of the deaths have involved super-fast sport bikes Marines have recently implemented a mandatory sport-bike course Next Article in U.S. » Read VIDEO From Larry Shaughnessy CNN Pentagon Producer QUANTICO, Virginia (CNN) -- Motorcycle accidents have killed more Marines in the past 12 months than enemy fire in Iraq, a rate that's so alarming it has prompted top brass to call a meeting to address the issue, officials say. Despite crashes, Gunnery Sgt. Art Tucker rides a sport motorcycle. "I enjoy it. ... It relaxes me," he says. Twenty-five Marines have died in motorcycle crashes since last November -- all but one of them involving sport bikes that can reach speeds of well over 100 mph, according to Marine officials. In that same period, 20 Marines have been killed in action in Iraq. The 25 deaths are the highest motorcycle death toll ever for the Marine Corps. Gen. James Amos, the assistant commandant of the Marine Corps, told CNN that commanders are trying to drill down on what "we need to do to help our Marines survive on these sport bikes." "The Marines are very serious about it," he said. Watch these aren't your father's Harleys » Marine Gunnery Sgt. Art Tucker knows all too well about the dangers of sport bikes. An owner of a Kawasaki Ninja, Tucker has had two crashes, and the second one nearly killed him. "I sustained a broken collar bone, I tore the shoulder out of the socket, I tore three ligaments in the shoulder, the rotator cuff, I broke three vertebrae," said Tucker, a drill instructor for new officers. "The worst was a head injury I received: a bruised brain. And it caused hemorrhaging, and from that I had partial paralysis of the left leg, full paralysis of the left foot and toes, and that was for approximately six months." Don't Miss Petraeus set to take over U.S. Central Command Iraq vets and post-traumatic stress: No easy answers Iraqi ministry members hurt in car bombing Amos said he and other top Marine officials will spend half the day Monday "focusing on nothing but motorcycle issues." The commandant of the Marine Corps, Gen. James Conway, and other senior leadership will attend the meeting at the Quantico, Virginia, Marine base, he said. About 18,000 of the nearly 200,000 Marines are believed to own motorcycles, Amos said. The Marines have taken some measures. The Marine Corps has had a long-standing policy for all Marines who ride motorcycles to take a mandatory basic riding course. More recently, it added a second training course specifically designed to train Marines who ride sport bikes. Any Marine caught riding, even on leave, without going through the training courses faces Marine Corps punishment, officials say. On a recent day at the Quantico training track, Marines whizzed by on their bikes. "I think the basic rider course has been great," said Cpl. Austin Oakley. "Here, they put you in situations you want to be weary of out in that open road." Oakley said he recently returned to the United States from Japan, and he immediately jumped at the chance to buy a sport bike. He said it's not uncommon for Marines to have motorcycle clubs within their units. "We'll go out on rides together. Fridays for lunchtime, we'll all meet up and go to lunch," Oakley said. "When I get on my motorcycle, it's me and the motorcycle. I don't need to go fast. I don't need to do anything like that. It's just being free." The rise in motorcycle deaths isn't confined to Marines. The Navy says it's had 33 deaths on motorcycles over the past 12 months -- a 65 percent jump from the previous time period. And authorities say motorcycle deaths have been a problem in the civilian world, too. Military officials say they're not sure why the deaths are on the rise. They initially believed the accidents might involve mostly young Marines and sailors around 18 or 19 years old. But Navy statistics show that five of the victims were 25, the most prevalent of any age involved in the crashes. And two 40-year-old sailors were killed in motorcycle crashes. Gen. Amos said the Marines have seen a similar trend. But he says the new training seems to be working: Of the 300 young men and women who have gone through the sport-bike course, only three have had accidents. The safety course instructors said some Marines who go through the training decide the sport bike is not for them. But even some Marines who've survived past crashes still want to ride again, even after they get the new training. "I enjoy it," said Tucker. "I can actually get on my motorcycle and ride, and it's just like if I were to do bowling or rock climbing or scuba diving. It's something for me. It relaxes me." __________________ Arkriders.com To be the best you must first be willing to risk the worst!

10-31-2008, 10:49 AM	#2
PhiSig1071 Let go of my ears. Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Moto: '03 GSX-R600, '04 625SMC Posts: 1,394	I am a JSMSP certified, and I coach the MSF course on base at NAS Jax on occasion. They've started implementing the sportbike course there. It's tough, and not everybody who tries will pass it. I think it's a good thing. __________________ Entia non sunt multiplicanda necessitatem

10-31-2008, 11:03 AM	#4
PhiSig1071 Let go of my ears. Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Moto: '03 GSX-R600, '04 625SMC Posts: 1,394	I completely agree, unfortunately we don't have the infrastructure in place to enforce than kind of mandate in the "civilian" world. __________________ Entia non sunt multiplicanda necessitatem

10-31-2008, 11:51 AM	#6
PiZdETS ⎷⎛⎝ ⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠ ⎷⎛⎝ Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: ⎷⎛⎝ ⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠ ⎷⎛⎝ Moto: ⎷⎛⎝ ⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠ ⎷⎛⎝ Posts: 990	HOLY SHIT OVER 100 MPH!!!!!! Srsly though, MSF beginner course to start out, then the advanced course when you want to get over a 750 for EVERYONE. __________________

10-31-2008, 12:16 PM	#9
PhiSig1071 Let go of my ears. Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Moto: '03 GSX-R600, '04 625SMC Posts: 1,394	Yeah, we should definitely have a gradiated license system for motorcyclists. We have some of the toughest laws governing the operation of a motorcycle (ie speeding tickets) yet we still havemore fatalities than any European country. IMO that's because of greater awareness because of more prevalance and the licensing systems they have there. __________________ Entia non sunt multiplicanda necessitatem

10-31-2008, 12:09 PM	#8
t-homo WSB Champion Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 7,146	I just saw this and was getting ready to post it. Its sad really. 25 in the Marines and 33 in the navy, just in the last year.