2008 Kx450F or Yz450F?

[TYEster]

Originally Posted by Apoc

Thats fine. You still never answered the original question though.

I dont want you to take this the wrong way, because we've been friends here and cf for a long time, but how can you judge what other people should ride when you have never even ridden with them?

If there was a reason behind your opinions, i'd put a little more stock in them. But your talking like your the only person here who rides dirt, and acting like he couldnt possibly handle a 450, when you have no idea what his riding skills are in the first place.

I mean seriously, you've been riding dirt for what, 5 years? We've been doing it since we were 5 years old. We know the difference between a trail and dirt bike, and where each excels. We arent the idiots you seem to be trying to make us out to be.

Alright what's the original question - Which bike? I say YZ because I'm a Yamaha fan based on my history and availability of dealerships and the few diehard ones that actually race and sponsor the tracks around here.

I'm not making you out to be idiots. If you have previous experience that's fine. But when he doesn't go into specific detail about some of his questions and comments how am I supposed to respond? I mean, if you're experienced enough as you make yourselves out to be, why ask what kinda gear he needs besides the usual? Well... What's your guys idea of usual? I've seen country side trail riders use a helmet and jeans for gear. But if you go to a certain track with dirt filled with lots of pebbles and stones - a roost protector is listed on the rule sign as part of a "necessary" requirement. These aren't really the type of questions that go along with a 450 purchase so you got my responses.

BTW who else actually rides dirt here and doesn't agree with me? He asked what we thought. If you guys don't like it, don't ask.

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by TYEster

Alright what's the original question - Which bike? I say YZ because I'm a Yamaha fan based on my history and availability of dealerships and the few diehard ones that actually race and sponsor the tracks around here.

I'm not making you out to be idiots. If you have previous experience that's fine. But when he doesn't go into specific detail about some of his questions and comments how am I supposed to respond? I mean, if you're experienced enough as you make yourselves out to be, why ask what kinda gear he needs besides the usual? Well... What's your guys idea of usual? I've seen country side trail riders use a helmet and jeans for gear. But if you go to a certain track with dirt filled with lots of pebbles and stones - a roost protector is listed on the rule sign as part of a "necessary" requirement. These aren't really the type of questions that go along with a 450 purchase so you got my responses.

BTW who else actually rides dirt here and doesn't agree with me? He asked what we thought. If you guys don't like it, don't ask.

I dont think he was asking about riding gear, I think he was asking about accessories for the bike. Guages, filters, stuff that would make maintaining/monitoring the bike an easier job. I dont think he was asking about helmets, boots, and riding armor. He should damn well know what he needs in that department.


I know that would be my problem with them. I never owned a 4 stroke dirtbike, and I wouldnt know the first thing about accessories for them. 2 strokes were easy. Ride it till it pops, replace the top end, and ride again. Something tells me the 4 strokes arent so simple.

[dReWpY]

i dont know squat about the new 4 strokes

what i do know is its always funny when debates come up on "this" topic

"this" topic is the hot topic when ever it comes to a hobby, whether it be checking the slid in the gun on youtube, noobs buying 600ss, whether or not the kid will get sick of a 80 mxer or need a 125 2s or a new rider buying a busa and not a 250 cause they were too fat in their minds

its always funny and this is the first thing that comes into mind

[CasterTroy]

Originally Posted by Apoc

And after riding my friend Cliffords yz450f. i'd have to say its pretty docile compared to 250 and 500 2-strokes.

Sorry...that right there's just funny

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by CasterTroy

Sorry...that right there's just funny

If you think so... Theres a reason the cr/kx500's were called backbreakers. If you think a 450/4 is anywhere near as crazy as a 500/2, then you have obviously never ridden a 500cc 2 stroke.

[CasterTroy]

Originally Posted by Apoc

If you think a 450/4 is anywhere near as crazy as a 500/2, then you have obviously never ridden a 500cc 2 stroke.

Obviously

First off...you assume a lot my friend

Second...I never said the 450's WERE as crazy stupid as a 500. I was laughing at the docile comment. You rode ONE 450 and deemed them "docile"


500 I'll give you as being flat out stupid. And no...never rode the CR500. Those you just don't find around here, however, I rode a KX500 at the beach several years ago (sand being much more forgiving and not letting you realize how much power is actually going to the wheel) then again prior to buying the zuke I now have. I was looking for a insane bike to motard out. Drove 4 hours to BUY this last bike with cash in hand, since I had ridden one before. But changed my mind after the ride on actual DIRT.

It had more power (in a very small range of the rpm) than the 450's I rode. But it was a very different power.

The best way to describe it was to compare the 500 2-smoke to a nitrous injected chevy 350 4-bolt main that made 600 hp (when juiced) in a vega. The 450's were 500ci BB's that made 600hp on motor alone in an f-body.

The big block delivers consistent power from 1500rpm to 5000 rpm and throws you back in the seat but with great fury.

The 350 on juice has nothing until 3000 and you hit the button...then the front wheels of that vega develop altitude sickness as the nose of the car suddenly shoots skyward and the left tire hooks up and shoots the car violently into the righthand guardrail
I did not like the delivery on the 500 at all, but I wouldn’t call a 450 docile in comparison. As the 450 will get you in just as much trouble if you're not respecting it.

Now…for the 250 2-smoke, ridden PLENTY of those, and YES a CR250. Owned a 2000 KX250 for several years. And while I loved my KX250 it didn’t have NEARLY the utter POWER and thrust that any 450 I’ve ridden has. To call ANY 450 docile compared to a 250 2-smoke is funny to me. Because if you’re not careful, you WILL wheelie most 450’s in ANY GEAR just above the middle of the rpm range.

BTW...the 250-2 smoke in the comparo would be a 500hp turbo civic drag car

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by CasterTroy

Obviously

First off...you assume a lot my friend

Second...I never said the 450's WERE as crazy stupid as a 500. I was laughing at the docile comment. You rode ONE 450 and deemed them "docile"

I never said it was docile, I said it feels docile compared to a 2 stroke. Dont get me wrong, the damn things are mean as hell, but they dont have the snap of a 2 stroke. Wheelie in every gear? Hell yes they do. But so does a cr250. Rev fast as hell? Yes, but not like a 2 stroke.

I love the new 4 strokes, they are cool as hell. Much better suspensions, lighter than ever. But they dont have that instant snap that a 2 stroke does.

I would never buy a 250/4, mostly because i'm 6'4, 300lbs (I wouldnt buy any new dirt bike right now actually), but they cant be compared to the smokers in flat out power. At least up till a few years ago, anyway. The yzf I rode is an 06, so perhaps im off base and there has been major improvements, but as of then, not even close. I also owned a 2006 trx450r (honda race quad), and while it was about 75 pounds heavier than a 450 dirt bike, it was close to as fast. A ton of fun? yes. As powerful as, say, a banshee? Not even close.

All im saying is that if you can ride a 250/2, there is no problem to ride a 450/4, and thats pretty much that.

Personally, if I can afford it, im going to pick up either a KX or CR500 this summer, because like Tmall, I want to get out of street riding altogether (between insurance and bike payments, it just isnt worth it to me anymore). I love those old bikes. But if I was going to go new, I wouldnt be looking at 250's, as I spend most of my time in gravel pits and logging roads.

Now, if he wanted something for tight trail riding or trail racing, i'd agree on looking for a 250, but he's not.

And as far as trail bikes, well, personally I hate them. I've ridden a few, and they have done everything well, but nothing great. With a dirt bike, he can do it all, trails, jumps, hard riding, easy riding, and he can even motard it if he wants.

Anyway, im not arguing because I think one kind is better than the other, they are all a ton of fun. Im arguing because he asked a question about 2 different bikes, and got answers that didnt involve any of them. He wanted to know if he should go with the KX450, or the YZ450. And all he got for an answer was 'Get a trail bike' and 'Get a 250'.

[CasterTroy]

Originally Posted by Apoc

He wanted to know if he should go with the KX450, or the YZ450. And all he got for an answer was 'Get a trail bike' and 'Get a 250'.

And didn't answer when asked what kind of experience he had

You KNOW him well and know his riding experience so you knew he could handle it..but to US it was just like someone asking you which was better for the city, a GSXR1000 or a busa. Not knowing it was Freddie Spencer asking.

[shmike]

Originally Posted by Apoc

I never said it was docile, I said it feels docile compared to a 2 stroke. Dont get me wrong, the damn things are mean as hell, but they dont have the snap of a 2 stroke. Wheelie in every gear? Hell yes they do. But so does a cr250. Rev fast as hell? Yes, but not like a 2 stroke.

I also owned a 2006 trx450r (honda race quad), and while it was about 75 pounds heavier than a 450 dirt bike, it was close to as fast. A ton of fun? yes. As powerful as, say, a banshee? Not even close.

I grew up much like you guys, riding all types of dirty toys all kinds of ways they weren't intended.

I also love me some 2 strokes.

That said, you are flat out wrong about the new 4Ts being down on power vs the old 2Ts.

A stock Banshee makes about 37hp. A stock 450r makes about 39hp.

The old 2Ts were cheap to make fast, they were loud and they hit like a ton of bricks once on the pipe. Just because the new bikes are more quiet and make power in a more linear fashion doesn't mean they are down on power.

[Tmall]

Originally Posted by CasterTroy

And didn't answer when asked what kind of experience he had

You KNOW him well and know his riding experience so you knew he could handle it..but to US it was just like someone asking you which was better for the city, a GSXR1000 or a busa. Not knowing it was Freddie Spencer asking.

Originally Posted by Tmall

I spent most of my life riding through the bush on quads and mx'ers and dual purpose/trail bikes.