Both Blinkers blink when i turn on a turn signal - Page 6

Amber Lamps · 02-23-2011, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerry_129

Yabbbut, although that will fix the fast-flash issue, it has nothing to do with his problem - the other side lighting dimly when one side is flashing. I started to mention installing one of those after seeing the fast-flash on the video, but figured why confuse things further...

I agree TOTALLY on using a 'no load' relay (also called 'towing' or 'electronic' - common @ every parts stores is the Tridon EL13) vs. wiring in those damn 'load' resistors (high-wattage, in parallel). They're a crude solution to the fast-flashing caused by swapping to low-current LEDs, more expensive, not avail. at any parts-store, etc. - don't like 'em.- only advantage is you generally don't have to remove the upper fairing to install (big deal).

But again - that's unrelated to the problem. What he most likely needs is just a pair of these http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062295 (or of a resistance around there) wired in-line (series) on each rear signal wire.

PS: Many 'engineers' do truly suck at the practical application of, well... anything practical (worked with/for several of them)!

But the good ones sweat the details to the Nth-degree, consider how technical theory actually works in the real world, and seek what works best (and many of that sort don't have a formal degree). They're generally the ones who figured out & designed/refined the bikes, the LEDs, the flashers, the computer you're reading this on, etc, etc.....

but ai thought that you all had decided that part of his problem was an abunance of power bleeding past his indoard flasher relay....if you bypass that to a no load flasher....

Kerry_129 · 02-24-2011, 07:40 AM

No, not the relay, that's before the circuit branches to L/R at the switch - the diode array at the indicator lamp.

Just my best semi-educated guess:
I'm thinking that the voltage (think of volts as electrical 'pressure' & the wiring as plumbing) is 'leaking' a bit past 2 of the 4 diodes (one-way 'valves' ) shown in the 2nd diagram fullthrottle posted. They are there to isolate the R & L branches of the circuit from being bridged by the single dash indicator light (one pair allows current to flow thru the indicator when L is switched on while the other pair blocks current to the R, and vice-versa when R is switched on).
But I think the diodes aren't blocking the voltage completely, so when one side flashes at full 13~14V, the other side also energizes to say 3 or 4V - not enough to make the filament of a regular bulb glow, but enough to dimly light the replacement LEDs. I think the reason the fronts aren't doing it is because they have series resistors built into them which are of a high enough resistance to keep the LED's from reaching their 'threshhold voltage' (the point at which they emit light). So I'm thinking he simply needs to add a resistor (or replace existing ones with higher value) to limit the voltage the LED's are 'seeing' & keep them below that threshhold. But I could be completely wrong & just wasting time trying to remember what little bit of electronics I learned years ago - hey, it beats doing a crossword puzzle though!

Papa_Complex · 02-24-2011, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerry_129

Yabbbut, although that will fix the fast-flash issue, it has nothing to do with his problem - the other side lighting dimly when one side is flashing. I started to mention installing one of those after seeing the fast-flash on the video, but figured why confuse things further...

I agree TOTALLY on using a 'no load' relay (also called 'towing' or 'electronic' - common @ every parts stores is the Tridon EL13) vs. wiring in those damn 'load' resistors (high-wattage, in parallel). They're a crude solution to the fast-flashing caused by swapping to low-current LEDs, more expensive, not avail. at any parts-store, etc. - don't like 'em.- only advantage is you generally don't have to remove the upper fairing to install (big deal).

But again - that's unrelated to the problem. What he most likely needs is just a pair of these http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062295 (or of a resistance around there) wired in-line (series) on each rear signal wire.

PS: Many 'engineers' do truly suck at the practical application of, well... anything practical (worked with/for several of them)!

But the good ones sweat the details to the Nth-degree, consider how technical theory actually works in the real world, and seek what works best (and many of that sort don't have a formal degree). They're generally the ones who figured out & designed/refined the bikes, the LEDs, the flashers, the computer you're reading this on, etc, etc.....

That's why you need a technologist, in most cases, not an engineer

Kerry_129 · 02-24-2011, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

That's why you need a technologist, in most cases, not an engineer

Agreed - that's what I am (MET / machine design puke). I suck too much at higher math to be a true nerd!

Papa_Complex · 02-24-2011, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerry_129

Agreed - that's what I am (MET / machine design puke). I suck too much at higher math to be a true nerd!

And I was a po' boy who couldn't afford an engineering degree, but had no problem with the math

Amber Lamps · 02-24-2011, 09:03 AM

Oh I see, well I had hoped that the built in resistance of the after market flasher would take care of this, it is separated left and right as you know. I probably missed something but I didn't think that the leds were "new" but the problem was...which led me to the flasher relay... Anyway, like you said, it's an interesting problem top speculate on. BTW I have my leds wired with a no load flasher and it solved all of my problems. Of course, I have front, back, integrated taillight and under tail leds that flash, so it's a different scenario altogether.

02-24-2011, 07:40 AM	#2
Kerry_129 Semi-reformed Squid Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 531	No, not the relay, that's before the circuit branches to L/R at the switch - the diode array at the indicator lamp. Just my best semi-educated guess: I'm thinking that the voltage (think of volts as electrical 'pressure' & the wiring as plumbing) is 'leaking' a bit past 2 of the 4 diodes (one-way 'valves' ) shown in the 2nd diagram fullthrottle posted. They are there to isolate the R & L branches of the circuit from being bridged by the single dash indicator light (one pair allows current to flow thru the indicator when L is switched on while the other pair blocks current to the R, and vice-versa when R is switched on). But I think the diodes aren't blocking the voltage completely, so when one side flashes at full 13~14V, the other side also energizes to say 3 or 4V - not enough to make the filament of a regular bulb glow, but enough to dimly light the replacement LEDs. I think the reason the fronts aren't doing it is because they have series resistors built into them which are of a high enough resistance to keep the LED's from reaching their 'threshhold voltage' (the point at which they emit light). So I'm thinking he simply needs to add a resistor (or replace existing ones with higher value) to limit the voltage the LED's are 'seeing' & keep them below that threshhold. But I could be completely wrong & just wasting time trying to remember what little bit of electronics I learned years ago - hey, it beats doing a crossword puzzle though!

02-24-2011, 09:03 AM	#6
Amber Lamps Moto GP Star Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 14,556	Oh I see, well I had hoped that the built in resistance of the after market flasher would take care of this, it is separated left and right as you know. I probably missed something but I didn't think that the leds were "new" but the problem was...which led me to the flasher relay... Anyway, like you said, it's an interesting problem top speculate on. BTW I have my leds wired with a no load flasher and it solved all of my problems. Of course, I have front, back, integrated taillight and under tail leds that flash, so it's a different scenario altogether.