Texas law will specifically target sportbikes

[Trip]

So it was an accident, not a stupid wheelie. WTF would handholds on a sportbike have done if she had them. She was getting tossed no matter if it was a sportbike or a cruiser.

[azoomm]

The family didn't write this poorly written bill, Representative Phillips did.

And, last time I check no one has the RIGHT to ride or drive anything.

[Mikey]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

People are going to be horrible and crass to you when you try to take away their rights. I lost someone (little brother) to a violent crash, but I didn't go rallying around trying to take away people's rights afterward. This is a by product of people who can't deal with death and can't handle their emotions. Something good does not come out of it every time someone dies needlessly...in fact, that's why they call it dying needlessly.

This is no different than the Brady Bill or hundreds of others in which a sob story is used to push shitty laws on the American (or Texican in this case) public. Losing a daughter doesn't make a person automatically worthy of my respect so I can understand people being a dick to them when they infringe on people's rights, I don't really give a fuck who you lost. Not me personally, but I can certainly understand why people would act that way toward the parents.

In the end we're all pretty much in agreement here anyway, I just don't like the notion that this girl is not responsible for her own death. But then, we already had this argument about Hulk Hogan's kid I think...

Originally Posted by azoomm

The family didn't write this poorly written bill, Representative Phillips did.

And, last time I check no one has the RIGHT to ride or drive anything.

Kaneman, very well said.

Moira, I realize the family did not write the bill. What they did was allow their dead loved one's name to be attached to it, then stood behind it and campaigned for it. At that point, they were trying to take away rights from others- rights which were not theirs to take. For that, fuck their feelings.

It's like dealing with a wounded animal. I'll try to help in any way I can, but when that animal lashes out and tries to attack me, I'll happily shoot it in the head.

[azoomm]

Originally Posted by Mikey

Kaneman, very well said.

Moira, I realize the family did not write the bill. What they did was allow their dead loved one's name to be attached to it, then stood behind it and campaigned for it. At that point, they were trying to take away rights from others- rights which were not theirs to take. For that, fuck their feelings.

It's like dealing with a wounded animal. I'll try to help in any way I can, but when that animal lashes out and tries to attack me, I'll happily shoot it in the head.

No, you have to step back for one moment and not become as emotional as the family. No RIGHTS of yours were challenged. You don't have a RIGHT to ride a motorcycle, you don't have a RIGHT to drive a car. You don't even have the RIGHT to happiness - only the RIGHT to pursue it.

When dealing with crazy, it's best to let there only be one crazy in the room. Let them be crazy. There is no convincing crazy that they are crazy. The most difficult part of this was when we would have them calmed down and listening to us - someone would attack them again and they would fall back into crazy. If at least one side is reasonable, progress can be made.

I never said a law had to be written and put into place. I didn't agree with this bill. I didn't think this would solve any problem. Hell, there are laws already in place that this bill would try to duplicate. There were parts of this law that couldn't be enforced - there is NO WAY for an officer to tell how long ANYONE has had a license. How can you put a two year requirement on it when it can't be enforced?? Pffffffffffffft.

The accident reports: http://www.kxii.com/news/headlines/90366334.html

I believe when someone is engaged in illegal behavior THEY are responsible for those they have in their care. She trusted him, he was breaking the law when he lost control, that failure of control resulted in her death. He needed to then bear the responsibility of her death. For him to not have ANY ramifications isn't right. We don't need more laws on the books to take care of that...

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by azoomm

She trusted him

I read your whole post and strongly disagree with the notion that American citizens don't have the right to travel. Every mentally sound, physically able (and some who aren't) person who isn't tied up with the penal system has the right to Freedom of Movement. And since we are nation of roads and highways that includes the freedom to drive or ride. That's why pretty much anyone can get a Driver's License. The silly notion in people's minds that we don't have the RIGHT to drive or the RIGHT to ride is ludicrous and gives the powers that be more edge in taking away basic human rights.

I only quoted those three words however because they are the most relevant to this thread. She made a mistake, she paid with her life. He didn't intentionally try to kill her. No punishment aside form those that correlate with whatever traffic laws he may or may not have broken. Putting the young man in jail, on probation or giving him life-altering fines isn't going to bring her back and it isn't going to change his future actions one bit.

That's a very, very slippery slope and I don't think we should start down it even a little bit.

[azoomm]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

I read your whole post and strongly disagree with the notion that American citizens don't have the right to travel. Every mentally sound, physically able (and some who aren't) person who isn't tied up with the penal system has the right to Freedom of Movement. And since we are nation of roads and highways that includes the freedom to drive or ride. That's why pretty much anyone can get a Driver's License. The silly notion in people's minds that we don't have the RIGHT to drive or the RIGHT to ride is ludicrous and gives the powers that be more edge in taking away basic human rights.

I only quoted those three words however because they are the most relevant to this thread. She made a mistake, she paid with her life. He didn't intentionally try to kill her. No punishment aside form those that correlate with whatever traffic laws he may or may not have broken. Putting the young man in jail, on probation or giving him life-altering fines isn't going to bring her back and it isn't going to change his future actions one bit.

That's a very, very slippery slope and I don't think we should start down it even a little bit.

I only disagree with your first paragraph. No one is entitled to drive or ride in, on or outside of anything. Freedom of movement - fucking walk.

And, he wasn't ticketed or held responsible for even the traffic laws he violated. Shouldn't THAT at least be addressed? Mommy and Daddy bought the bike - bought a new one - and no fines or tickets were issued.

I will not travel down the slippery slope - and, you now know me well enough that I won't. I'm not for undo lawsuits, I'm not for undo laws, I don't care for government involvement and intervention. However, I will not sit by and allow someone else to be that voice. If I can be the one to walk calmly into the room and let others see that it does or does not make sense - I'll happily be that person.

[Adeptus_Minor]

Originally Posted by azoomm

She paid with her life. I am certainly not, no way NO HOW, am I going to be that crass to any grieving parent. It's part of how this bill got as far as it did - people being horrible to this dead girl and grieving family.

There are some of us that are working with them to make this a more positive action to put their daughter's name to. If they want a legacy, we'll help them with educational programs. I don't believe this bill ever had a chance of making the impact another avenue could...

Originally Posted by azoomm

When dealing with crazy, it's best to let there only be one crazy in the room. Let them be crazy. There is no convincing crazy that they are crazy. The most difficult part of this was when we would have them calmed down and listening to us - someone would attack them again and they would fall back into crazy. If at least one side is reasonable, progress can be made.

See, I totally agree with this.
Just because the girl made a bad call climbing on that bike with a fucktard doesn't mean her family doesn't deserve some compassion.
The politician who drafted the bill and wanted to use Malorie's name & story to promote it likely sold it to the family as a measure to protect others from suffering her fate. In their grief, they bought into it.
Now, what if...rather than lambasting the family for their choice...someone with some compassion and understanding took the time to sit down with them and say "This isn't going to accomplish what you want it to" and offered them a more reasonable and effective avenue for their efforts...how is that a bad way to handle things?

[azoomm]

Originally Posted by Adeptus_Minor

See, I totally agree with this.
Just because the girl made a bad call climbing on that bike with a fucktard doesn't mean her family doesn't deserve some compassion.
The politician who drafted the bill and wanted to use Malorie's name & story to promote it likely sold it to the family as a measure to protect others from suffering her fate. In their grief, they bought into it.
Now, what if...rather than lambasting the family for their choice...someone with some compassion and understanding took the time to sit down with them and say "This isn't going to accomplish what you want it to" and offered them a more reasonable and effective avenue for their efforts...how is that a bad way to handle things?

I'm trying, Greg. I'm trying. Every time I had a productive conversation with them, someone would send them messages about how they were assholes or, better yet, how their daughter was a whore. Seriously.

Since when is it illegal to ride a horse?

[Papa_Complex]

Azoomm, what's the story behind the crash, itself? Did it ever come out? All that I've been able to find, is that the rider initially said that he was cut off by a truck.

Unfortunately it sounds like a typical case of "governance by sound bite"; politicians latching onto a sad situation, in an effort to promote themselves.

To those saying that she bore some responsibility; that depends on the situation. If the rider was breaking the law, at the time that the incident occurred, then he bears the responsibility as only he can control the twisty thing on the bars. That doesn't mean that a new law needs to be passed, but we have to take responsibility for the results of our actions. I presume that negligent operation of a vehicle, causing death, is a law already on the books in Texas.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...TorontoNewHome

[Dave]

I'd hit it