5 Interesting Facts from Harley-Davidson’s Annual Report

Gas Man · 02-26-2011, 01:19 AM

They also jumped on the bad financing band wagon like every company did in the last 5 years. They lost their asses on bad loans. Further, we all know luxuries like bikes are painfully the first to go when times are tuff. Let alone new bikes.

Further they mistakingly so, stuck to their middle aged white biker. More recently they have aimed their advertising dollars at the younger generations, especially with new sportsters that are cheaper than even many sportbikes (sub $7k). Knowing its a foot step in.

I don't believe their quality will suffer anytime soon. I have seen a huge step forward on many of their bikes, parts, and aftermarket in the last few years. Hell even advanced technologies like led lighting, and led head/fog lights.

But in order for them to stay competitive they have to succeed abroad. And in the last year they have taken steps with that in india and brazil.

However, they have also made poor decisions as well. This year they made a big to do about the release of a new entry level bike. Did they make a completely new cool bike design? No. Did they make a touring bike off the vrod platform (done very well via non-hd aftermarket)? Nope! Instead a (while very nice) stripped down softail. Mega fail in many eyes.

They are the american cult bike and I don't think they'll ever go out of biz. They just need to keep adjusting and get in the front of technology.

tommymac · 02-26-2011, 06:58 AM

I think thye got all they could out of the baby boomers/mid life crisis type of people. At the factory tour they were saying how they were gearing more towards new to motorcycling people and the younger crowd, yet they were hyping their 25k dollar bikes more than anything else.

I guess so long as they can keep hawking 80 dollar t-shirst they will be ok.

Hd financing wont be making much off me anyway since I will have the loan for my buell paid off over 3 years early LOL

derf · 02-26-2011, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gas Man

However, they have also made poor decisions as well. This year they made a big to do about the release of a new entry level bike. Did they make a completely new cool bike design? No. Did they make a touring bike off the vrod platform (done very well via non-hd aftermarket)? Nope! Instead a (while very nice) stripped down softail. Mega fail in many eyes.

I'm still waiting for them to start shifting production towards the VROD engines and ditching their traditional Vtwin. Its something they will have to do eventually (maybe a long time from now), and the platform is a good platform with more potential than they give it credit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gas Man

They are the american cult bike and I don't think they'll ever go out of biz. They just need to keep adjusting and get in the front of technology.

I agree, but I do see them making bad design choices and loosing much more of the market than they need to, especially to the japanese cruisers who are managing to sell the same style and lifestyle ideas while doing it at 1/2 the price (see honda fury). Also if they loose too much money and need to cut too much costs, eventually it will effect their quality, and we will see a re-do of the AMF years

Gas Man · 02-26-2011, 03:10 PM

Many of the things above are stated and from me being a HD insider (one who owns), is still off base and obviously stated from somebody that doesn't own one. I don't mean that as an insult.

As far as the jap cruisers... I tell ya, even when compared to a Victory. They all come up short on many things. Honestly. Overall quality feel, cheaper componants, lack of factory aftermarket support, lack of options, less than great paint (I honestly don't know any MC company that does better paint than HD, hell not even cars), lack of dealership support/network... and I can list exact examples if needed. Remember I work on all of them, and have rode most. The overall feel isn't there on many other brands. You can honestly tell that my HD was designed/built by people who ride. I'm just saying there is more to it than just the sticker price.

Per Willie G, the head designer and family of HD. There will be nothing done with the vrod platform other than how it stands now. No touring, no crossing the motor over to other frames, nothing. I read that somewhere... don't remember where.

And honestly, Tommy, they haven't been pushing the 25k bikes. They been pushing sportsters and softtails... $7k-$17k.

You will never see HD stray far from it's current setup. They don't have to. Many, myself included, like the constant, the stability, and the heritage of it's designs.

Further, I honestly think that HD is similar to BMW in many ways. Trip and I discussed this before. Their markets are obviously different, but their price points are similar as well as their brand loyality. They both have a great factory aftermarket, and when you purchase one of their aftermarket pieces you know you bought quality. Both have a solid feel of quality and re-assurance that the bike was designed well. But both are priced slightly higher than their competition, and for good reason IMO.

Really, what point did the article make? Sales are down and keep on decreasing? Of course, the economy is as well. I bet HD downturn matches the economies downturn.

Brandon · 03-04-2011, 12:03 PM

you'd look good on a Harley Geoff.

Hydrant · 03-04-2011, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon

you'd look good on a Harley Geoff.

Thanks.

I won't lie, it has crossed my mind to get a cruiser (probably wouldn't be a HD) of some sort just for cruising around. I'd keep the TL.

Trip · 03-04-2011, 12:31 PM

HD will find itself in a different market in a few decades. Sorry GM, you live in a bubble. The rest of the country doesn't care about the "American" brand like you Michigan people do. That's ya'll shit. In Tennessee, we build VWs, Toyotas, and a lot of other "imports." These are more American to us than your Michigan built Fords, because they put food on our tables and our region benefits from them.

I doubt the cult will ever put HD in a spot where they have to close, but I see it shrinking as the boomers start dying off.

goof2 · 03-04-2011, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip

HD will find itself in a different market in a few decades. Sorry GM, you live in a bubble. The rest of the country doesn't care about the "American" brand like you Michigan people do. That's ya'll shit. In Tennessee, we build VWs, Toyotas, and a lot of other "imports." These are more American to us than your Michigan built Fords, because they put food on our tables and our region benefits from them.

I doubt the cult will ever put HD in a spot where they have to close, but I see it shrinking as the boomers start dying off.

That is also why you will continue to see HD doing things like building that factory in, if I'm remembering correctly, India. There is a lot of uncertainty about the American market while in places like India and China there seems to be more sustained interest in American nostalgia combined with a steadily increasing number of people over there who can afford it.

Trip · 03-04-2011, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof2

That is also why you will continue to see HD doing things like building that factory in, if I'm remembering correctly, India. There is a lot of uncertainty about the American market while in places like India and China there seems to be more sustained interest in American nostalgia combined with a steadily increasing number of people over there who can afford it.

Yeah, HD will definitely need to go outside the US to keep it's market share.

Dave · 03-04-2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip

Yeah, HD will definitely need to go outside the US to keep it's market share.

As would any potential new american motorcycle company.

02-26-2011, 03:10 PM	#4
Gas Man Trip's Assistant Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Imported from Detroit Moto: 2009 HD Street Classic Posts: 12,149	Many of the things above are stated and from me being a HD insider (one who owns), is still off base and obviously stated from somebody that doesn't own one. I don't mean that as an insult. As far as the jap cruisers... I tell ya, even when compared to a Victory. They all come up short on many things. Honestly. Overall quality feel, cheaper componants, lack of factory aftermarket support, lack of options, less than great paint (I honestly don't know any MC company that does better paint than HD, hell not even cars), lack of dealership support/network... and I can list exact examples if needed. Remember I work on all of them, and have rode most. The overall feel isn't there on many other brands. You can honestly tell that my HD was designed/built by people who ride. I'm just saying there is more to it than just the sticker price. Per Willie G, the head designer and family of HD. There will be nothing done with the vrod platform other than how it stands now. No touring, no crossing the motor over to other frames, nothing. I read that somewhere... don't remember where. And honestly, Tommy, they haven't been pushing the 25k bikes. They been pushing sportsters and softtails... $7k-$17k. You will never see HD stray far from it's current setup. They don't have to. Many, myself included, like the constant, the stability, and the heritage of it's designs. Further, I honestly think that HD is similar to BMW in many ways. Trip and I discussed this before. Their markets are obviously different, but their price points are similar as well as their brand loyality. They both have a great factory aftermarket, and when you purchase one of their aftermarket pieces you know you bought quality. Both have a solid feel of quality and re-assurance that the bike was designed well. But both are priced slightly higher than their competition, and for good reason IMO. Really, what point did the article make? Sales are down and keep on decreasing? Of course, the economy is as well. I bet HD downturn matches the economies downturn. __________________ -Chris "Why pay somebody else to fuck up your bike?" Run Amsoil Product

02-26-2011, 01:19 AM	#1
Gas Man Trip's Assistant Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Imported from Detroit Moto: 2009 HD Street Classic Posts: 12,149	They also jumped on the bad financing band wagon like every company did in the last 5 years. They lost their asses on bad loans. Further, we all know luxuries like bikes are painfully the first to go when times are tuff. Let alone new bikes. Further they mistakingly so, stuck to their middle aged white biker. More recently they have aimed their advertising dollars at the younger generations, especially with new sportsters that are cheaper than even many sportbikes (sub $7k). Knowing its a foot step in. I don't believe their quality will suffer anytime soon. I have seen a huge step forward on many of their bikes, parts, and aftermarket in the last few years. Hell even advanced technologies like led lighting, and led head/fog lights. But in order for them to stay competitive they have to succeed abroad. And in the last year they have taken steps with that in india and brazil. However, they have also made poor decisions as well. This year they made a big to do about the release of a new entry level bike. Did they make a completely new cool bike design? No. Did they make a touring bike off the vrod platform (done very well via non-hd aftermarket)? Nope! Instead a (while very nice) stripped down softail. Mega fail in many eyes. They are the american cult bike and I don't think they'll ever go out of biz. They just need to keep adjusting and get in the front of technology.

02-26-2011, 06:58 AM	#2
tommymac Moto GP Star Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,022	I think thye got all they could out of the baby boomers/mid life crisis type of people. At the factory tour they were saying how they were gearing more towards new to motorcycling people and the younger crowd, yet they were hyping their 25k dollar bikes more than anything else. I guess so long as they can keep hawking 80 dollar t-shirst they will be ok. Hd financing wont be making much off me anyway since I will have the loan for my buell paid off over 3 years early LOL

03-04-2011, 12:03 PM	#5
Brandon 1 up 5 down Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Allegany NY Moto: 08 1098s Posts: 58	you'd look good on a Harley Geoff.

03-04-2011, 12:31 PM	#7
Trip Hold mah beer! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: 80 Miles South of Moto Heaven Moto: 08 R1200GS Posts: 23,268	HD will find itself in a different market in a few decades. Sorry GM, you live in a bubble. The rest of the country doesn't care about the "American" brand like you Michigan people do. That's ya'll shit. In Tennessee, we build VWs, Toyotas, and a lot of other "imports." These are more American to us than your Michigan built Fords, because they put food on our tables and our region benefits from them. I doubt the cult will ever put HD in a spot where they have to close, but I see it shrinking as the boomers start dying off.